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ASSIST, AMERICA'S ARMY COMMUNITY - RELIVE THE GLORY DAYS OF AMERICA'S ARMY 2.5

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Offline ArmyAntiCheat

Community
« on: Saturday, April 26, 2014, 11:49:30 AM »
First of all i am not raging out on anyone here but i am here to tell you all couple points i made out over a few weeks, months and years.

First thing i would like to talk about is ''our'' anti cheat tool. We all knows what its capable off, but it has weaknesses. I am sad to say this but our loved ''admins'' relay more on anti cheat tool than on community voice. I don't know why community is ignored by admins. I mean community plays this game, not a single admin puts so much dedication in the game action. There is some respect to admins such as eliz who works on assist for free and always finds time to develop it. To repeat this message I have not seen once that admins would trust or agree with community on background checks. This goes to the recent topics about zibi and kechup. I am also sure that diesel also uses macro and like half of players, and it is ''one'' i repeat, one of the biggest advantages right now against people who simply cant afford or dont know how to use macro. Thats why anti cheat has weaknesses, it cant catch everything and there is always things that will be undetectable. Admins don't play much like normal players do, maybe they played, years ago or months but community should be in the first place for AAO.

Second point is that we complain about less people. Yes, you're very right about this. I am not sure why we talk about maps or training in the way to bring back more players. I have played AA for a month non stop and now got bored, not because i have dropped my support to assist but because i am bored. Now i say this; if we are not to change game play, tactics, maps then dont talk about how our player base drops. Its not hackers or cheaters that ruins the game, but we are ruining it. We saw 200 players online and growing but it has dropped off again to the minimum player base we had previously. If we disable training or some training aspects then we hell sure to see player base activity rise again but it wont be permanently. Years i have offered assist to go on changing tactics, game play but as ''community disagrees'' with this i see no point to blame admins or make them do things that we not agree with. By the way if you want to bring more players and not to ruin our loved game, we need to fix it ourselves, starting with being nice to each other and unite as community.

Third thing is that the assist poll isn't used much at all. I mean the future aspects of the game should be questioned by community in poll section. As we still have the same question over random spawns we could change it and start asking and placing bits right way. It should be used more often, and it feel to me that that bit is forgotten a lot where i see the only best future we have to communicate with players.

Last problem i see is ''oldschool'' players. I am not going to rage on them or threaten or hurt them by any means but I am saying some facts what i see currently. As you may agree or not agree oldschool players will never want changes, they wont be giving you a chance to change game a bit. What I offered not long ago was random spawns, all i got was negative feedback but, as we see the poll section (answers) it makes me believe that it would be great idea, which i believe and spanky would be a great aspect of the game. Old school player will never want changes, and now we got likely more oldschool players than new players. I don't understand why we want to bring old schoo players back? is it because they are good and skilful? The game should be open to everyone and the main objective should be to bring new players, not old players that have families or businesses to take care of, our latest hope is new members, young member snot old members. Sure we can gain experience from them but thats just all we can get from them.

My last conclusion on all this is that we all blame admins for not doing their job, but its us who is not doing our job, we are split, we are not community and we are not united, and it will never be, because people likes people who they know, its a bit of first view discrimination in all sense. Admins dont relay more on our word but relay on tool that it is runned as a software. I see these points like in political view as we are not worth anything and higher ranked people are more smarter and have more power than others. We ll should be equal and finally the game is not going to move until we start thinking and start progressing in changing tactics, gameplay, a bit map structure and so on. There is lots to do but we say ''NO'' to that so in other words blame ourselves.

Offline Bart!

Re: Community
« Reply #1 on: Saturday, April 26, 2014, 12:04:07 PM »
I disagree with a few points, and agree with other points.

1. I agree that AC does not catch all macro usages, and I have been playing a lot lately, (not only on main account), and I must say for sure I did not see any cheater, only macro is possible, and we will do our best to catch them, but we need 100% proof, otherwise there is a chance of banning an innocent guy, which is much worse if it happens.
Of course I do not agree with the community on bg checks if they think zibi or ketchup has no recoil, I watched them play, but I also watched people play 3 years ago, their recoil is WORSE than those top players back then. The problem is that most people nowadays play so much the same maps (which is also #2), that they are not used to the game as a whole anymore, do not know every single possibility anymore and they blame other things for it. Hardly any player nowadays can play decent on a long range map with m16 guns, but if somebody shoots them across the map on urban they find it unbeleivable.

#2. Yes that is a big issue, more maps should be played if we want to attract more players. All the time urban, bridge, pipe and hospital in EU gets boring pretty quickly. I would love to play some oldschool m16 distance maps.

#3, this is indeed correct, we haven't done many polls lately

#4, This goes hand in hand with the original goal of this project. We don't want to create a new game, we want to keep the old game alive. If we change the core of this army game with all kind of fancy stuff, it is not the same anymore. Something small as different spawns can completely destroy the balance there is currently. I also see no issue in the spawnpoints, I think this actually makes the game more tactical, making spawns more random will make competition less fun as well. The only reason SF extraction was never really played in leagues was because there was an imbalanced spawnpoint.
The problem is not in the spawnpoints of the map, the problem is in the fact that people only play the same map all day long.

Offline Ganja

Re: Community
« Reply #2 on: Saturday, April 26, 2014, 12:07:29 PM »
First of all i am not raging out on anyone here but i am here to tell you all couple points i made out over a few weeks, months and years.

First thing i would like to talk about is ''our'' anti cheat tool. We all knows what its capable off, but it has weaknesses. I am sad to say this but our loved ''admins'' relay more on anti cheat tool than on community voice. I don't know why community is ignored by admins. I mean community plays this game, not a single admin puts so much dedication in the game action. There is some respect to admins such as eliz who works on assist for free and always finds time to develop it. To repeat this message I have not seen once that admins would trust or agree with community on background checks. This goes to the recent topics about zibi and kechup. I am also sure that diesel also uses macro and like half of players, and it is ''one'' i repeat, one of the biggest advantages right now against people who simply cant afford or dont know how to use macro. Thats why anti cheat has weaknesses, it cant catch everything and there is always things that will be undetectable. Admins don't play much like normal players do, maybe they played, years ago or months but community should be in the first place for AAO.

Second point is that we complain about less people. Yes, you're very right about this. I am not sure why we talk about maps or training in the way to bring back more players. I have played AA for a month non stop and now got bored, not because i have dropped my support to assist but because i am bored. Now i say this; if we are not to change game play, tactics, maps then dont talk about how our player base drops. Its not hackers or cheaters that ruins the game, but we are ruining it. We saw 200 players online and growing but it has dropped off again to the minimum player base we had previously. If we disable training or some training aspects then we hell sure to see player base activity rise again but it wont be permanently. Years i have offered assist to go on changing tactics, game play but as ''community disagrees'' with this i see no point to blame admins or make them do things that we not agree with. By the way if you want to bring more players and not to ruin our loved game, we need to fix it ourselves, starting with being nice to each other and unite as community.

Third thing is that the assist poll isn't used much at all. I mean the future aspects of the game should be questioned by community in poll section. As we still have the same question over random spawns we could change it and start asking and placing bits right way. It should be used more often, and it feel to me that that bit is forgotten a lot where i see the only best future we have to communicate with players.

Last problem i see is ''oldschool'' players. I am not going to rage on them or threaten or hurt them by any means but I am saying some facts what i see currently. As you may agree or not agree oldschool players will never want changes, they wont be giving you a chance to change game a bit. What I offered not long ago was random spawns, all i got was negative feedback but, as we see the poll section (answers) it makes me believe that it would be great idea, which i believe and spanky would be a great aspect of the game. Old school player will never want changes, and now we got likely more oldschool players than new players. I don't understand why we want to bring old schoo players back? is it because they are good and skilful? The game should be open to everyone and the main objective should be to bring new players, not old players that have families or businesses to take care of, our latest hope is new members, young member snot old members. Sure we can gain experience from them but thats just all we can get from them.

My last conclusion on all this is that we all blame admins for not doing their job, but its us who is not doing our job, we are split, we are not community and we are not united, and it will never be, because people likes people who they know, its a bit of first view discrimination in all sense. Admins dont relay more on our word but relay on tool that it is runned as a software. I see these points like in political view as we are not worth anything and higher ranked people are more smarter and have more power than others. We ll should be equal and finally the game is not going to move until we start thinking and start progressing in changing tactics, gameplay, a bit map structure and so on. There is lots to do but we say ''NO'' to that so in other words blame ourselves.

First point.

Admins should rely onthe community. Yes and No. I agree that admins don't play very very much, but that's their right, there's nothing wong with it (and who a I to criticize that). As far as listening to the community, Im not sure at all. More than 50% of the community is made of one-mappers they accuse people of hacking when they get owned on the only map they know (no offence, just stating a fact). And banning without proof is just not right. I couldn't even imagine how frustrating it must be for a good clean player to be banned while he was doing nothing wrong.

Point 2

Yes I agree it is becoming boring, but I doubt there is somthing that can be done about that. From time to time there's a miraculous server that plays some original maps, but this has been discussed already enough.

For the poll point, I am not even sure people take the poll seriously. Some might answer while not caring, others might not see it, or others might answer while they have no clue what it is about ...

About the oldschools, yes some of thems are really boring dicks that don't want to change habits, but this game shouldn't change too much or it will become even worse. It might be better to see the game die, the way it was supposed to be played, rather than see it survive a few months longer and see it changed in a completely other game, for a completely other audience.

so my conclusion would be:

People have been trying to invite other players, organize a lot of stuff, to make this happen (AA is still alive, I would never have thought it will). The community can be dramatic at some times, but there is still some nice effort provided by players etc. So eventually people will have to keep in mind that this game won't last forever ...
« Last Edit: Sunday, April 27, 2014, 05:32:52 AM by Ganja »

Offline CS-ACI-

Re: Community
« Reply #3 on: Saturday, April 26, 2014, 16:59:50 PM »
Hello,

I am only going to speak too one point.

When it comes to banning someone from the game for cheating, you must have documented proof.

The reason for this is simple, you don't want to be sued. Those of you that have been around for a long time in the AA world, will have seen this before. Even -ACI- has this problem, we know people are cheating but can not prove it. The level of proof is higher at -ACI- but this is because we have seen others try to frame people.

This is always a problem for anti cheat groups, the members want anyone dodgy banned.

Steve

Offline ArmyAntiCheat

Re: Community
« Reply #4 on: Saturday, April 26, 2014, 18:14:51 PM »
Basically thats all I wanted to say, if you want to add something to assist team please say or another time it could be too late, i hope assist realises all the situation right now and hopefully they find a conclusion to all this.

Offline ArmyAntiCheat

Re: Community
« Reply #5 on: Saturday, April 26, 2014, 18:42:49 PM »
Hello,

I am only going to speak too one point.

When it comes to banning someone from the game for cheating, you must have documented proof.

The reason for this is simple, you don't want to be sued. Those of you that have been around for a long time in the AA world, will have seen this before. Even -ACI- has this problem, we know people are cheating but can not prove it. The level of proof is higher at -ACI- but this is because we have seen others try to frame people.

This is always a problem for anti cheat groups, the members want anyone dodgy banned.

Steve


The thing is that we can't get proof, assist is a proof only we can count on. If the player cheats assist will get them, if its not detectable there will be no chance for us to detect it or find any proof. The only proof we can get is from tk, harassment and so on, but not if someone cheats or hacks...

Have you seen someone get proof giving video or screenshots with players view of hacks? the answer is simple...no. I hope you know where i am going, the documentation or any kind of proof we cant find it is not available, the words from our lips is not matter. The only way you can ban someone is get a proof that we can never get.

Also, the only thing we use BT checks to see if they have linked accounts, which doesnt help at all, its just a piece of stats to see if hes an experienced player, therefore thats why he is good or bad.
« Last Edit: Saturday, April 26, 2014, 18:46:08 PM by ArmyAntiCheat »

Offline Ares

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Re: Community
« Reply #6 on: Saturday, April 26, 2014, 19:23:13 PM »
It boils down you, as antiarmycheat touches on, we're the sole reason to that the game is dying, we're ( i hate saying we're here) playing 3 maps, urban, hospital and pipeline. Imagine coming as a  new player into this game and having to choose between 3 maps where the players on there know every pixel on the map. Broaden your view people, stop playing the game like fragwhores, camping, leaning and zooming until time runs out, and serveradmins set your server to diffrent maps, people will join if they see a clanserver with it's own clan on it. Or continue playing the 3 maps and sit back, watch the game die. Good fucking job retards.

Offline Saltuarius

Re: Community
« Reply #7 on: Saturday, April 26, 2014, 19:59:07 PM »
to my mind dev-team is so uninspired. small things could change a lot and take players out of their comfortzone. not even a little innovation was risked. instead new maps, new assist, new homepage...nothing substantial. sry to say that.

Offline bollie

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Re: Community
« Reply #8 on: Saturday, April 26, 2014, 22:23:48 PM »
to my mind dev-team is so uninspired. small things could change a lot and take players out of their comfortzone. not even a little innovation was risked. instead new maps, new assist, new homepage...nothing substantial. sry to say that.

So what kinda small things you think the game needs than???]

Offline Alex

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Re: Community
« Reply #9 on: Saturday, April 26, 2014, 22:41:59 PM »
I'm going to address the only part of your post worth addressing.
Quote
am sad to say this but our loved ''admins'' relay more on anti cheat tool than on community voice. I don't know why community is ignored by admins.
We don't ignore the community. Why would we have so many polls asking for their opinion if we ignored them?
Yes, our anti-cheat isn't perfect, but it's a hell of a lot more perfect than a human saying someone hacks because "I just know it." We don't ban without proof, that's a very dangerous path to go down and we won't.

to my mind dev-team is so uninspired. small things could change a lot and take players out of their comfortzone. not even a little innovation was risked. instead new maps, new assist, new homepage...nothing substantial. sry to say that.
This post annoys me for two reasons.
First, our staff is completely voluntary. What is done is what Eliz can get done or wants to do. You're not paying for the game, expecting him to do a bunch of stuff not knowing his situation is ridiculous. You also have to understand that there is a limit to what we can change. We do not have access to the source code, so pretty much everything done has to be a mod over top of the game.
Second, where are your small game changing suggestions? We try to listen to the community as best we can, but you can't complain about something you want done not being done when you never suggested it in the first place.

Offline Spanky

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Re: Community
« Reply #10 on: Saturday, April 26, 2014, 23:25:31 PM »
It boils down you, as antiarmycheat touches on, we're the sole reason to that the game is dying, we're ( i hate saying we're here) playing 3 maps, urban, hospital and pipeline. Imagine coming as a  new player into this game and having to choose between 3 maps where the players on there know every pixel on the map. Broaden your view people, stop playing the game like fragwhores, camping, leaning and zooming until time runs out, and serveradmins set your server to diffrent maps, people will join if they see a clanserver with it's own clan on it. Or continue playing the 3 maps and sit back, watch the game die. Good fucking job retards.

As stunned as I am to say it, I whole-heartedly agree with you 100%.

I stopped playing AA long ago because while I had TONS of enjoyable hours on it, it just got boring. Static maps & fragwhores make the game incredibly boring beyond 10-15 minutes. Coming at this from my background, I believe maps could make the game better. It's tough though. I believe AA2 should be preserved as we all remember it but at the same time, preserving it will keep it as a novelty of a memory. Maybe that's why so many new accounts become activated but never hang around long.

I would love to see maps overhauled and players forced to learn new tactics. New features added to maps such as random spawns, random objectives and pushing the engine as far as we can. The only thing standing in the way is the tsunami of rage from fragwhores and die-hard old schoolers. It doesn't mean we have to remove Pipeline & Bridge, just change things so that whoring is harder and there's a more level playing field for newbies.

That's just my 2 cents.
It's like shaving your pubes to make your junk look bigger.
Might look bigger, but it aint.....

Offline ArmyAntiCheat

Re: Community
« Reply #11 on: Sunday, April 27, 2014, 01:45:09 AM »
Well said Ares and spankie:) totally agree and removing those maps would be a disaster for frag whores but feature that would make us play other maps.

Offline Saltuarius

Re: Community
« Reply #12 on: Sunday, April 27, 2014, 07:34:12 AM »
This post annoys me for two reasons.
First, our staff is completely voluntary. What is done is what Eliz can get done or wants to do. You're not paying for the game, expecting him to do a bunch of stuff not knowing his situation is ridiculous. You also have to understand that there is a limit to what we can change. We do not have access to the source code, so pretty much everything done has to be a mod over top of the game.
Second, where are your small game changing suggestions? We try to listen to the community as best we can, but you can't complain about something you want done not being done when you never suggested it in the first place.

i know u are all voluntary but u also make the decisions and take the responsibility.

read the 70 posts i made in the last 3 years on this board, all are suggestions. in the threads i made them, are even more suggestions.
dev-team needs a vision in which direction u want to develop the project and than slowly do it and communicate it. i dont see any visions, ideas etc. from the dev-side nor any direction were heading to. eliz is a great technocrat, but where are the project-leaders with the bigger idea behind?

i dont want to make u look bad, but want to make u move...

and ac is really not the problem, its one of the things u do really great.

Offline BiG_SerGiO

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Re: Community
« Reply #13 on: Sunday, April 27, 2014, 13:13:28 PM »
Who is ArmyAntiCheat?
"Three things can not hide for long: the Moon, the Sun and the Truth"?
Hmm?

https://vortexservers.com/clients/aff.php?aff=406

Offline Ares

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Re: Community
« Reply #14 on: Sunday, April 27, 2014, 13:52:14 PM »

 

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