AAO25.com
America's Army => General Chat => Topic started by: ArmyAntiCheat on Saturday, April 26, 2014, 11:49:30 AM
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First of all i am not raging out on anyone here but i am here to tell you all couple points i made out over a few weeks, months and years.
First thing i would like to talk about is ''our'' anti cheat tool. We all knows what its capable off, but it has weaknesses. I am sad to say this but our loved ''admins'' relay more on anti cheat tool than on community voice. I don't know why community is ignored by admins. I mean community plays this game, not a single admin puts so much dedication in the game action. There is some respect to admins such as eliz who works on assist for free and always finds time to develop it. To repeat this message I have not seen once that admins would trust or agree with community on background checks. This goes to the recent topics about zibi and kechup. I am also sure that diesel also uses macro and like half of players, and it is ''one'' i repeat, one of the biggest advantages right now against people who simply cant afford or dont know how to use macro. Thats why anti cheat has weaknesses, it cant catch everything and there is always things that will be undetectable. Admins don't play much like normal players do, maybe they played, years ago or months but community should be in the first place for AAO.
Second point is that we complain about less people. Yes, you're very right about this. I am not sure why we talk about maps or training in the way to bring back more players. I have played AA for a month non stop and now got bored, not because i have dropped my support to assist but because i am bored. Now i say this; if we are not to change game play, tactics, maps then dont talk about how our player base drops. Its not hackers or cheaters that ruins the game, but we are ruining it. We saw 200 players online and growing but it has dropped off again to the minimum player base we had previously. If we disable training or some training aspects then we hell sure to see player base activity rise again but it wont be permanently. Years i have offered assist to go on changing tactics, game play but as ''community disagrees'' with this i see no point to blame admins or make them do things that we not agree with. By the way if you want to bring more players and not to ruin our loved game, we need to fix it ourselves, starting with being nice to each other and unite as community.
Third thing is that the assist poll isn't used much at all. I mean the future aspects of the game should be questioned by community in poll section. As we still have the same question over random spawns we could change it and start asking and placing bits right way. It should be used more often, and it feel to me that that bit is forgotten a lot where i see the only best future we have to communicate with players.
Last problem i see is ''oldschool'' players. I am not going to rage on them or threaten or hurt them by any means but I am saying some facts what i see currently. As you may agree or not agree oldschool players will never want changes, they wont be giving you a chance to change game a bit. What I offered not long ago was random spawns, all i got was negative feedback but, as we see the poll section (answers) it makes me believe that it would be great idea, which i believe and spanky would be a great aspect of the game. Old school player will never want changes, and now we got likely more oldschool players than new players. I don't understand why we want to bring old schoo players back? is it because they are good and skilful? The game should be open to everyone and the main objective should be to bring new players, not old players that have families or businesses to take care of, our latest hope is new members, young member snot old members. Sure we can gain experience from them but thats just all we can get from them.
My last conclusion on all this is that we all blame admins for not doing their job, but its us who is not doing our job, we are split, we are not community and we are not united, and it will never be, because people likes people who they know, its a bit of first view discrimination in all sense. Admins dont relay more on our word but relay on tool that it is runned as a software. I see these points like in political view as we are not worth anything and higher ranked people are more smarter and have more power than others. We ll should be equal and finally the game is not going to move until we start thinking and start progressing in changing tactics, gameplay, a bit map structure and so on. There is lots to do but we say ''NO'' to that so in other words blame ourselves.
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I disagree with a few points, and agree with other points.
1. I agree that AC does not catch all macro usages, and I have been playing a lot lately, (not only on main account), and I must say for sure I did not see any cheater, only macro is possible, and we will do our best to catch them, but we need 100% proof, otherwise there is a chance of banning an innocent guy, which is much worse if it happens.
Of course I do not agree with the community on bg checks if they think zibi or ketchup has no recoil, I watched them play, but I also watched people play 3 years ago, their recoil is WORSE than those top players back then. The problem is that most people nowadays play so much the same maps (which is also #2), that they are not used to the game as a whole anymore, do not know every single possibility anymore and they blame other things for it. Hardly any player nowadays can play decent on a long range map with m16 guns, but if somebody shoots them across the map on urban they find it unbeleivable.
#2. Yes that is a big issue, more maps should be played if we want to attract more players. All the time urban, bridge, pipe and hospital in EU gets boring pretty quickly. I would love to play some oldschool m16 distance maps.
#3, this is indeed correct, we haven't done many polls lately
#4, This goes hand in hand with the original goal of this project. We don't want to create a new game, we want to keep the old game alive. If we change the core of this army game with all kind of fancy stuff, it is not the same anymore. Something small as different spawns can completely destroy the balance there is currently. I also see no issue in the spawnpoints, I think this actually makes the game more tactical, making spawns more random will make competition less fun as well. The only reason SF extraction was never really played in leagues was because there was an imbalanced spawnpoint.
The problem is not in the spawnpoints of the map, the problem is in the fact that people only play the same map all day long.
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First of all i am not raging out on anyone here but i am here to tell you all couple points i made out over a few weeks, months and years.
First thing i would like to talk about is ''our'' anti cheat tool. We all knows what its capable off, but it has weaknesses. I am sad to say this but our loved ''admins'' relay more on anti cheat tool than on community voice. I don't know why community is ignored by admins. I mean community plays this game, not a single admin puts so much dedication in the game action. There is some respect to admins such as eliz who works on assist for free and always finds time to develop it. To repeat this message I have not seen once that admins would trust or agree with community on background checks. This goes to the recent topics about zibi and kechup. I am also sure that diesel also uses macro and like half of players, and it is ''one'' i repeat, one of the biggest advantages right now against people who simply cant afford or dont know how to use macro. Thats why anti cheat has weaknesses, it cant catch everything and there is always things that will be undetectable. Admins don't play much like normal players do, maybe they played, years ago or months but community should be in the first place for AAO.
Second point is that we complain about less people. Yes, you're very right about this. I am not sure why we talk about maps or training in the way to bring back more players. I have played AA for a month non stop and now got bored, not because i have dropped my support to assist but because i am bored. Now i say this; if we are not to change game play, tactics, maps then dont talk about how our player base drops. Its not hackers or cheaters that ruins the game, but we are ruining it. We saw 200 players online and growing but it has dropped off again to the minimum player base we had previously. If we disable training or some training aspects then we hell sure to see player base activity rise again but it wont be permanently. Years i have offered assist to go on changing tactics, game play but as ''community disagrees'' with this i see no point to blame admins or make them do things that we not agree with. By the way if you want to bring more players and not to ruin our loved game, we need to fix it ourselves, starting with being nice to each other and unite as community.
Third thing is that the assist poll isn't used much at all. I mean the future aspects of the game should be questioned by community in poll section. As we still have the same question over random spawns we could change it and start asking and placing bits right way. It should be used more often, and it feel to me that that bit is forgotten a lot where i see the only best future we have to communicate with players.
Last problem i see is ''oldschool'' players. I am not going to rage on them or threaten or hurt them by any means but I am saying some facts what i see currently. As you may agree or not agree oldschool players will never want changes, they wont be giving you a chance to change game a bit. What I offered not long ago was random spawns, all i got was negative feedback but, as we see the poll section (answers) it makes me believe that it would be great idea, which i believe and spanky would be a great aspect of the game. Old school player will never want changes, and now we got likely more oldschool players than new players. I don't understand why we want to bring old schoo players back? is it because they are good and skilful? The game should be open to everyone and the main objective should be to bring new players, not old players that have families or businesses to take care of, our latest hope is new members, young member snot old members. Sure we can gain experience from them but thats just all we can get from them.
My last conclusion on all this is that we all blame admins for not doing their job, but its us who is not doing our job, we are split, we are not community and we are not united, and it will never be, because people likes people who they know, its a bit of first view discrimination in all sense. Admins dont relay more on our word but relay on tool that it is runned as a software. I see these points like in political view as we are not worth anything and higher ranked people are more smarter and have more power than others. We ll should be equal and finally the game is not going to move until we start thinking and start progressing in changing tactics, gameplay, a bit map structure and so on. There is lots to do but we say ''NO'' to that so in other words blame ourselves.
First point.
Admins should rely onthe community. Yes and No. I agree that admins don't play very very much, but that's their right, there's nothing wong with it (and who a I to criticize that). As far as listening to the community, Im not sure at all. More than 50% of the community is made of one-mappers they accuse people of hacking when they get owned on the only map they know (no offence, just stating a fact). And banning without proof is just not right. I couldn't even imagine how frustrating it must be for a good clean player to be banned while he was doing nothing wrong.
Point 2
Yes I agree it is becoming boring, but I doubt there is somthing that can be done about that. From time to time there's a miraculous server that plays some original maps, but this has been discussed already enough.
For the poll point, I am not even sure people take the poll seriously. Some might answer while not caring, others might not see it, or others might answer while they have no clue what it is about ...
About the oldschools, yes some of thems are really boring dicks that don't want to change habits, but this game shouldn't change too much or it will become even worse. It might be better to see the game die, the way it was supposed to be played, rather than see it survive a few months longer and see it changed in a completely other game, for a completely other audience.
so my conclusion would be:
People have been trying to invite other players, organize a lot of stuff, to make this happen (AA is still alive, I would never have thought it will). The community can be dramatic at some times, but there is still some nice effort provided by players etc. So eventually people will have to keep in mind that this game won't last forever ...
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Hello,
I am only going to speak too one point.
When it comes to banning someone from the game for cheating, you must have documented proof.
The reason for this is simple, you don't want to be sued. Those of you that have been around for a long time in the AA world, will have seen this before. Even -ACI- has this problem, we know people are cheating but can not prove it. The level of proof is higher at -ACI- but this is because we have seen others try to frame people.
This is always a problem for anti cheat groups, the members want anyone dodgy banned.
Steve
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Basically thats all I wanted to say, if you want to add something to assist team please say or another time it could be too late, i hope assist realises all the situation right now and hopefully they find a conclusion to all this.
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Hello,
I am only going to speak too one point.
When it comes to banning someone from the game for cheating, you must have documented proof.
The reason for this is simple, you don't want to be sued. Those of you that have been around for a long time in the AA world, will have seen this before. Even -ACI- has this problem, we know people are cheating but can not prove it. The level of proof is higher at -ACI- but this is because we have seen others try to frame people.
This is always a problem for anti cheat groups, the members want anyone dodgy banned.
Steve
The thing is that we can't get proof, assist is a proof only we can count on. If the player cheats assist will get them, if its not detectable there will be no chance for us to detect it or find any proof. The only proof we can get is from tk, harassment and so on, but not if someone cheats or hacks...
Have you seen someone get proof giving video or screenshots with players view of hacks? the answer is simple...no. I hope you know where i am going, the documentation or any kind of proof we cant find it is not available, the words from our lips is not matter. The only way you can ban someone is get a proof that we can never get.
Also, the only thing we use BT checks to see if they have linked accounts, which doesnt help at all, its just a piece of stats to see if hes an experienced player, therefore thats why he is good or bad.
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It boils down you, as antiarmycheat touches on, we're the sole reason to that the game is dying, we're ( i hate saying we're here) playing 3 maps, urban, hospital and pipeline. Imagine coming as a new player into this game and having to choose between 3 maps where the players on there know every pixel on the map. Broaden your view people, stop playing the game like fragwhores, camping, leaning and zooming until time runs out, and serveradmins set your server to diffrent maps, people will join if they see a clanserver with it's own clan on it. Or continue playing the 3 maps and sit back, watch the game die. Good fucking job retards.
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to my mind dev-team is so uninspired. small things could change a lot and take players out of their comfortzone. not even a little innovation was risked. instead new maps, new assist, new homepage...nothing substantial. sry to say that.
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to my mind dev-team is so uninspired. small things could change a lot and take players out of their comfortzone. not even a little innovation was risked. instead new maps, new assist, new homepage...nothing substantial. sry to say that.
So what kinda small things you think the game needs than???]
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I'm going to address the only part of your post worth addressing.
am sad to say this but our loved ''admins'' relay more on anti cheat tool than on community voice. I don't know why community is ignored by admins.
We don't ignore the community. Why would we have so many polls asking for their opinion if we ignored them?
Yes, our anti-cheat isn't perfect, but it's a hell of a lot more perfect than a human saying someone hacks because "I just know it." We don't ban without proof, that's a very dangerous path to go down and we won't.
to my mind dev-team is so uninspired. small things could change a lot and take players out of their comfortzone. not even a little innovation was risked. instead new maps, new assist, new homepage...nothing substantial. sry to say that.
This post annoys me for two reasons.
First, our staff is completely voluntary. What is done is what Eliz can get done or wants to do. You're not paying for the game, expecting him to do a bunch of stuff not knowing his situation is ridiculous. You also have to understand that there is a limit to what we can change. We do not have access to the source code, so pretty much everything done has to be a mod over top of the game.
Second, where are your small game changing suggestions? We try to listen to the community as best we can, but you can't complain about something you want done not being done when you never suggested it in the first place.
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It boils down you, as antiarmycheat touches on, we're the sole reason to that the game is dying, we're ( i hate saying we're here) playing 3 maps, urban, hospital and pipeline. Imagine coming as a new player into this game and having to choose between 3 maps where the players on there know every pixel on the map. Broaden your view people, stop playing the game like fragwhores, camping, leaning and zooming until time runs out, and serveradmins set your server to diffrent maps, people will join if they see a clanserver with it's own clan on it. Or continue playing the 3 maps and sit back, watch the game die. Good fucking job retards.
As stunned as I am to say it, I whole-heartedly agree with you 100%.
I stopped playing AA long ago because while I had TONS of enjoyable hours on it, it just got boring. Static maps & fragwhores make the game incredibly boring beyond 10-15 minutes. Coming at this from my background, I believe maps could make the game better. It's tough though. I believe AA2 should be preserved as we all remember it but at the same time, preserving it will keep it as a novelty of a memory. Maybe that's why so many new accounts become activated but never hang around long.
I would love to see maps overhauled and players forced to learn new tactics. New features added to maps such as random spawns, random objectives and pushing the engine as far as we can. The only thing standing in the way is the tsunami of rage from fragwhores and die-hard old schoolers. It doesn't mean we have to remove Pipeline & Bridge, just change things so that whoring is harder and there's a more level playing field for newbies.
That's just my 2 cents.
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Well said Ares and spankie:) totally agree and removing those maps would be a disaster for frag whores but feature that would make us play other maps.
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This post annoys me for two reasons.
First, our staff is completely voluntary. What is done is what Eliz can get done or wants to do. You're not paying for the game, expecting him to do a bunch of stuff not knowing his situation is ridiculous. You also have to understand that there is a limit to what we can change. We do not have access to the source code, so pretty much everything done has to be a mod over top of the game.
Second, where are your small game changing suggestions? We try to listen to the community as best we can, but you can't complain about something you want done not being done when you never suggested it in the first place.
i know u are all voluntary but u also make the decisions and take the responsibility.
read the 70 posts i made in the last 3 years on this board, all are suggestions. in the threads i made them, are even more suggestions.
dev-team needs a vision in which direction u want to develop the project and than slowly do it and communicate it. i dont see any visions, ideas etc. from the dev-side nor any direction were heading to. eliz is a great technocrat, but where are the project-leaders with the bigger idea behind?
i dont want to make u look bad, but want to make u move...
and ac is really not the problem, its one of the things u do really great.
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Who is ArmyAntiCheat?
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Who is ArmyAntiCheat?
-IGC-Wolf
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LOL gif him a cheance .
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i know u are all voluntary but u also make the decisions and take the responsibility.
read the 70 posts i made in the last 3 years on this board, all are suggestions. in the threads i made them, are even more suggestions.
dev-team needs a vision in which direction u want to develop the project and than slowly do it and communicate it. i dont see any visions, ideas etc. from the dev-side nor any direction were heading to. eliz is a great technocrat, but where are the project-leaders with the bigger idea behind?
i dont want to make u look bad, but want to make u move...
and ac is really not the problem, its one of the things u do really great.
I definitely understand what you're saying, but it's a bit more complicated than implementing ideas people have. There is a lot to consider. Our original vision was the bring back AA2 and keep it the same game it was before the official auth went down. However, our #1 goal is the longevity of the game. Sure, we want to add stuff to make new people join, but we also don't want any changes to make current players leave. Major changes is a bit of a gamble that needs to be looked at carefully. What if nobody new joins but all of the current players hate the changes and leave? The game is, after all, on a 2 generation old engine and isn't exactly attractive to younger players. We've talked about many changes that ended up not getting implemented. It's not that we're not thinking about it, just that most of the time the risk outweighs the reward.
It's exactly what you said, the admins make the decisions and take the responsibility, and we sure as hell don't want to be responsible for killing a game with unwanted changes.
I agree that something should be done to kind of freshen up the game though. I think a player opinion thread might be useful to see what ideas everyone has.
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I think a player opinion thread might be useful to see what ideas everyone has.
Yep, it could be, once you stopped banning people for no reason and deleting posts that are incovenient for you.
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Yep, it could be, once you stopped banning people for no reason and deleting posts that are incovenient for you.
Oh pit. I feel like your huge history of hacking and trolling is a very good reason for a ban. You've been nothing but a troll and hacker ever since you left.
Fun fact of the day, you're the only person I have ever banned from AAO25.com. So your statement means absolutely nothing, but then again, as a troll, I doubt you meant to make sense anyways.
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Oh pit. I feel like your huge history of hacking and trolling is a very good reason for a ban. You've been nothing but a troll and hacker ever since you left.
Fun fact of the day, you're the only person I have ever banned from AAO25.com. So your statement means absolutely nothing, but then again, as a troll, I doubt you meant to make sense anyways.
As for "huge history": I'm glad you used the phrase "since you left", which acknowledges I had some history before that point.
As for hacking: all of the targets were/are: a) cheaters, b) exploiters, c) abusing server owners (kick/ban-trigger happy, ghosting clans etc.), d) self-proclaimed pros (with uber-sound locating players from other side of the map), etc. Never went after ordinary players (it's quite boring, to be honest).
As for trolling: it's hard not to troll, after you're getting banned for whatever you write (reasonable or not).
You want a reasonable discussion? Let's start with a simple fact: game server owners have too much power that they use to abuse players. When do you realize, that this game has just a handful of really active servers? In such situation, getting a ban on a single server is almost like getting a global ban (especially for 1-map players). I've seen you paying much attention to e.g. teamkillers, which are a minor problem for this game. But I've _never_ seen you paying attention to the admin abuse problem.
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As for "huge history": I'm glad you used the word "since you left", which acknowledges I had some history before it.
As for hacking: all of the targets were/are: a) cheaters, b) exploiters, c) abusing server owners (kick/ban-trigger happy, ghosting clans etc.), d) self-proclaimed pros (with uber-sound locating ordinaly players from other side of the map), etc. Never went after ordinary players (it's quite boring, to be honest).
As for trolling: it's hard not to troll, after you're getting banned for whatever you write (reasonable or not).
You want a reasonable discussion? Let's start with a simple thing, you and other assist admins don't seem to realize since a long time. Game server owners have too much power that they use to abuse players. When do you realize, that this game has just a handful of really active servers? In such situation, getting a ban on a single server is almost like getting a global ban (especially for 1-map player). I've seen you paying much attention to e.g. teamkillers, which are a minor problem for this game. But I've _never_ seen you paying attention to the admin abuse problem.
For your hacking bit, I'll just leave it at two wrongs don't make a right.
As for server admin abuse, we definitely realize it, there's just not much we can do about it. They bought the server, they can control who goes on it. It's always been that way for any game. There's no other way around that. If we start punishing server owners, nobody will buy servers and players might leave. It is definitely a problem, but it's pretty much out of our control. My hope is that since the community is so small, abusive server admins will be reported and players will avoid those servers. Obviously not the best way to deal with it, but there's only so much we can control.
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For your hacking bit, I'll just leave it at two wrongs don't make a right.
You don't have any real argument here, so all you are left with is a "saying".
As for server admin abuse, we definitely realize it, there's just not much we can do about it. They bought the server, they can control who goes on it. It's always been that way for any game. There's no other way around that. If we start punishing server owners, nobody will buy servers and players might leave. It is definitely a problem, but it's pretty much out of our control. My hope is that since the community is so small, abusive server admins will be reported and players will avoid those servers. Obviously not the best way to deal with it, but there's only so much we can control.
Abusive admins _are_ reported all the time. Just browse the shoutbox.
It's false that nothing can be done about it. Just some slight pressure from your side would change things.
And if some admin stops his server. So what? Will the community loose much? Servers are the only resource we have more than plenty nowadays. Just look at the server list in the browser. 99% of servers are empty and waiting for players to come.
But you don't do _anything_ about this problem. If I'm wrong, please quote a single thread, where you did so.
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You don't have any real argument here, so all you are left with is a "saying".
What else is there to say? I don't care who you're hacking against, hacking in the first place is wrong, especially since your idea of "players that deserve it" is iffy at best.
Abusive admins _are_ reported all the time. Just browse the shoutbox.
It's false that nothing can be done about it. Just some slight pressure from your side would change things.
And if some admin stops his server. So what? Will the community loose much? Servers are the only resource we have more than plenty nowadays. Just look at the server list in the browser. 99% of servers are empty and waiting for players to come.
But you don't do _anything_ about this problem. If I'm wrong, please quote a single thread, where you did so.
Nope, we haven't done anything, and most likely won't. For one, we would need a lot of proof of abuse, something nobody has ever posted or given us. Second of all, I flat out disagree that a server owned leaving would be fine. What if it's a clan server and we have an entire clan leave the game? We don't need to lose any more players.
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Pit stop talking bs.
You started hacking cause everyone ingame was owning ur ass. That is mostly cause ur gameplay sucks... ur just a noob with no learningskills.
Its funny how you wanna talk ur hacking good hahahaha well you are still the same joke like always, nothing has changed in all these years.
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You started hacking cause everyone ingame was owning ur ass. That is mostly cause ur gameplay sucks... ur just a noob with no learningskills.
True story. I played with him not that long ago and owned him several times on Hospital. When Spanky owns you, that's when you gotta re-think things in life. I mean, my skill level is pathetic and the poor guy that I manage to kill... gotta be humiliating.
:)
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Abusive admins _are_ reported all the time. Just browse the shoutbox.
If you bothered to pay attention to what's happening on shoutbox, you'd know that 95% of those things are people who get banned by the game/Assist for unauthorized logins or other such stuff. It just happens sometimes. Very seldom have I seen a genuine report of admin abuse on the shoutbox. People just don't know the game has bugs where it says you're banned, when in reality you were kicked and can join back up in 5 minutes.
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I agree there's way too much power to the server admins.
I feel like this is like buying shares of a company. The more shares you have, the more power you have. Here's it's like, the more servers you have, the more power you have over the game.
In the ideal AA there should be 10 servers, all official ones. Everyone playing on them, map rotating, and admins designed by the community.
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Ganja, don't get me wrong, the server admins do have a lot of control, and maybe it's more than would be fair, but my point was that the complaints in shoutbox are almost never about that.
And I don't disagree that there are admins out there that abuse their powers, but like was said before (by Killa), with such a small community such servers should be abandoned quite fast, it's not like there's a shortage of servers, 136 servers with 19 people on them is what it says at the moment.
And having only official servers might work, if we had the resources for that. However, it would have to be more than 10. There should be around 10 for Europe alone (in different locations), then another 5-10 for NA (including Brazilian servers, there's lots of them playing, also some on west, others on east coast), plus there would have to be servers on OC area as well (their community isn't as big as it used to, but it still exists and can't be ignored).
So altogether we'd probably have to have around (or close to) 30 servers. Even if not all of them will be filled at once (even for one location), we would always need to have room for growth.
I know Nick has been helping us setting up some servers for both NA an EU locations (and it's very nice of him!), but there's a limit to that, not to mention the fact that he doesn't have servers all over the planet.
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That's why I'm calling it the ideal AA. Maybe I should have said 'utopic' AA in order for you to understand I know it's not gonna happen ;)
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As for "huge history": I'm glad you used the phrase "since you left", which acknowledges I had some history before that point.
As for hacking: all of the targets were/are: a) cheaters, b) exploiters, c) abusing server owners (kick/ban-trigger happy, ghosting clans etc.), d) self-proclaimed pros (with uber-sound locating players from other side of the map), etc. Never went after ordinary players (it's quite boring, to be honest).
A) How do you know they are cheating? You banned Bollie as well for example, while he is obviously not cheating
B) Punishing exploits with a harder punishment? Seems like a bigger wrong to a smaller wrong
C) Well I must admit they are annoying and sometimes are a problem, but I do not see how using a hack against them helps in this case.
D) And how do you measure who they are? If somebody gets lucky for one round, do you see them as a pro and turn your bot on?
All the measures are fishy to start with. That's the main problem. You become the only judge with nobody to control it, and you think it is weird that you got banned for that?
I do agree with the problem of kickhappy server admins though, I just do not agree with your solution there.
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this topic is about improve the game now the conversation is going to banned people and stuff... i think we can give ideas but we cant demand too much from aa25 assist admins... there is some conversation about improve some maps like monkey island and rt i think is only killaman doing the map not a team of 50 programers.. the solution to improve aa2 is renovate some maps.. everyone should give theyr opinion about what should be had or removed from maps discuss it until changes could be made.. one map at a time...the idea that i have in this moment is that players are loosing the hability to wait on servers after beeing killed. nothing more than this.. :style: we should stop a bit whit the negative criticism and do a constructive one.. :up:
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Well there's a problem with editing original maps.
We don't want to change the original game content (if possible).
And even if we did do that (and there have been attempts), there will always be people who think it's wrong. It's a lose-lose situation.
But the custom maps can be changed as much as they need to be (as long as we have the original creator's blessing).
Ideas are always welcome, and a lot of us are constantly reading through all of them, but there is only so much that can be done and only so many people with limited amount of time to do it.
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Well there's a problem with editing original maps.
We don't want to change the original game content (if possible).
the idea is of change but stay whit the 2 options available.... like radio tower orginal and radio tower 2...
I
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You're in the wrong topic right?
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No
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the idea is of change but stay whit the 2 options available.... like radio tower orginal and radio tower 2...
This won't work because people will just whore the original version and ignore the modified version. Then they'll complain about the useless download size.
Did anybody else realize what happened when we disallowed SF being forceclassed on servers? They moved to Pipeline SF.
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yeah, sound logical.
but theory is always something special. just try it with 3-5 maps to see what happened.
what can we loose - putting some wasted time in it, but I wish we would try that.
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This won't work because people will just whore the original version and ignore the modified version. Then they'll complain about the useless download size.
Did anybody else realize what happened when we disallowed SF being forceclassed on servers? They moved to Pipeline SF.
at least it balanced the game a little bit since they wont have 2 203s anymore, so I still see it as a good thing.
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What else is there to say? I don't care who you're hacking against, hacking in the first place is wrong, especially since your idea of "players that deserve it" is iffy at best
I never said hacking is "right". I never said it is some kind solution. I never said it should be allowed. I just explained the background and I simply oppose to your idea of claiming that I'm some kind of a monster that eats AAO babies.
A) How do you know they are cheating? You banned Bollie as well for example, while he is obviously not cheating
It's funny how you try to protect your "pro" friend. One day assist gets a much better AC than nowadays, and suddenly many of such respected "pros" will vanish. But it's nice to see that at least you can express yourself in an elegant way. But I'm not fooled by this. Not of all the hackers are a script kiddies.
Pit stop talking bs.
You started hacking cause everyone ingame was owning ur ass. That is mostly cause ur gameplay sucks... ur just a noob with no learningskills.
Its funny how you wanna talk ur hacking good hahahaha well you are still the same joke like always, nothing has changed in all these years.
So far this was a discussion at an acceptable level. So please spare me your mumbling.
On a serious note about my gaming: for many years I prefer to play "kamikaze" style. I simply love to get a pistol or scopeless AK, and just _rush_ to the underpass. 99% of the time I get killed within first 15 seconds of the round. But what counts is this 1% of cases, when I manage to run to the enemy base and kill many unexpecting oponents. It's the adrenaline that I get from movement, aiming and action.
Dying in the game doesn't annoy me a smallest bit. But glitchers and frag-hoes like you (the biggest single reason this game is dying) won't probably understand that approach to game.
Nope, we haven't done anything, and most likely won't. For one, we would need a lot of proof of abuse, something nobody has ever posted or given us. Second of all, I flat out disagree that a server owned leaving would be fine. What if it's a clan server and we have an entire clan leave the game? We don't need to lose any more players.
I'm glad you admitted you are doing _nothing_ about this serious problem.
If you bothered to pay attention to what's happening on shoutbox, you'd know that 95% of those things are people who get banned by the game/Assist for unauthorized logins or other such stuff. It just happens sometimes. Very seldom have I seen a genuine report of admin abuse on the shoutbox. People just don't know the game has bugs where it says you're banned, when in reality you were kicked and can join back up in 5 minutes.
Either you are blind, or you just playing politics now. Server admins abuse is an obvious problem for years, and you don't have to read forum or shoutbox to recognize that. Just play the fucking game for a bit (without having the AAO25.com tag on you, ofc.).
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Hackers like you destroy the game pit, don't point at me if its you to blaim. You were part of assist when u started ur bs ingame. Also funny that you banned me with no proof for a flashhack; remember? You had the power, and you abused them to the max! So funny when you talk about admin abuse...
But hey i like the tactics ur trying to pull. Sadly we all know what happened with good old pit.
And about ur serious note, i do the same as you, only i know how to do it and kill without the use of any programs.
And you was for sure really frustrated all this time of that i and the rest who killed you, otherwise you didnt do what you did, so you can stop the mumbling about that.
Facts are there, ur just a bad loser.
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Server admin =/= Assist admin.
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As Killa said earlier, this post annoys me, but just for one reason as i am concerned.
You guys always whine and dime about the same damn situation and either oppose
changes or rather do nothing about it :censored:
THE WHINING
More maps should be played if we want to attract more players.
Continue playing the 3 maps and sit back, watch the game die.
From time to time there's a miraculous server that plays some original maps
MY ANALYSIS
The ability for everyone to put a server online (own or leased) killed the duck.
"Too much choice killed the choice" as they say in the business world.
POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS
Redundancy over the total number of servers is not the problem.
The only way to make people play other maps would either be that assist
only displays online servers with the same map for a day, or a limited number of
servers with rotating maps, so everyone would be forced to play 7 different maps every week.
In the ideal AA there should be 10 servers, all official ones
having only official servers might work.
CONTRADICTIONS
Forcing people to do something is considered a dictatorship and in no uncertain terms will kill AA 2 faster than any thing else
I would love to see players forced
THE FACTS
Here's it's like, the more servers you have, the more power you have over the game.
THE MYTHS
As for server admin abuse, we definitely realize it, there's just not much we can do about it.
They bought the server, they can control who goes on it. It's always been that way for any game.
There's no other way around that. If we start punishing server owners, nobody will buy servers and players might leave.
What if it's a clan server and we have an entire clan leave the game?
We don't need to lose any more players.
having only official servers might work, if we had the resources for that.
THE RESIGNATION
I should have said 'utopic' AA in order for you to understand I know it's not gonna happen ;)
CONCLUSION
Although so many technical changes have been made by devs, the numbers don't lie.
The amount of active players is ridiculous compared to the number of total assist downloads.
When this game started, everyone was forced to play on official army servers.
Soon, better players got tired to get mixed up with noobs and early cheaters and started
clan / private servers, claiming the security playing there would be greater as they administered
their servers directly. As time passed, Army official servers emptied gradually.
More and more clan servers appeared, admins got technically better and gained popularity
inside the community because of the way they handled things. But soon many lost control
as we know and some soon appeared as dictators because of their banning policies.
After 14 years, things are different. Assist has the best AC ever and a very competent dev team,
so we can have today what we never had before : Official cheatproof Army servers with the best
admins around.
Brand new organization - Measures :
- Start over from scratch.
- Create a specified small number of Official Assist Servers (OAS)
matching the current number of active players.
- Only those OAS would be listed in Assist.
- Define a new set of policy rules for private server owners.
- All existing private server admins / owners should give them up and donate to assist instead.
In return, selected ones would become "Assist admins" and play with a brand new logo next to
their names. Means they would finance the new framework and get a leading position inside of
the Assist organistaion.
- Concerning purely private servers, the right for them to be listed in assist should be gradually granted
just as players need to do training before they are able to play, but based on other criterias :
If the number of players should eventually rise exponantially again one day, they would
play an adjusting
role and get listed in Assist for a limited amount of time for example.
Much more neccessary measures involved would need further discussions.
Therefore : Time has come for Assist to retake control of the whole fucking project
as if the army had just launched version 1.0 of the game.
Doing nothing in fear of losing what is not there would be a great mistake and
all could be lost in the end. Think about it, but do it fast.
Just my 2 pennies.
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Either you are blind, or you just playing politics now. Server admins abuse is an obvious problem for years, and you don't have to read forum or shoutbox to recognize that. Just play the fucking game for a bit (without having the AAO25.com tag on you, ofc.).
Like I said on my next post, it does happen, but 95% of the shoutbox entries about such issues are false.
As for zoxee, nice job compiling all this, must have taken some effort!
I don't think people who would lose their servers would suddenly start donating that money to Assist. In an ideal world, this might happen, but in this one they'll probably just come here and bitch about it and be even more reluctant to donate anything (plus, a lot of the servers are home-run anyway).
If we did get the donations or had the resources, then as I've explained before, 10 servers is definitely too little, as in order to not lose players we would have to cover all the continents. 20 might work, but I'm a little skeptical to be honest.
And do you realize this would mean a lot more work for Assist admins? We'd be responsible for setting up and controlling all the servers (with a possible addition of a few community admins) and I really don't think we have the resources for that (manpower). We can't just go ahead and add new admins on a limb.
All in all your ideas are great, take control and force people to play different maps would work wonders theoretically, but the only way I would see this happening is gradually.
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I really appreciate you liked my analysis teddy ;)
I really put some effort in this because my 6th sense makes me worry about all of us since a few weeks.
Something drastically new must be done, fast, otherwise... :shock:
PS : I agree, the progressive way appears to be the most appropriate one, under the condition
that we start fresh new with 10-20 listed OAS servers only and gradually list additional private servers
on a defined pace so the baby can grow healthy again :)
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Well done zoxx.
Like Teddy said, if admins can't play their homemap, they won't really donate for a map they don't like (because they don't want to try, AA players are kinda stubborn).
PS : I agree, the progressive way appears to be the most appropriate one, under the condition
that we start fresh new with 10-20 listed OAS servers only and gradually list additional private servers
on a defined pace so the baby can grow healthy again :)
By gradually, I was thinking about the contrary. Reduce the number of home-made servers/non-official servers bit by bit, and adding few more official servers. Maybe we can just limite the servers to one per clan, would be a good start and assist won't have some crazy 150 servers ...
Then seeing how things go we can decide to let some non-official servers live or not.
It could be compared to baby system in China ... or not
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I never said hacking is "right". I never said it is some kind solution. I never said it should be allowed. I just explained the background and I simply oppose to your idea of claiming that I'm some kind of a monster that eats AAO babies.
It's funny how you try to protect your "pro" friend. One day assist gets a much better AC than nowadays, and suddenly many of such respected "pros" will vanish. But it's nice to see that at least you can express yourself in an elegant way. But I'm not fooled by this. Not of all the hackers are a script kiddies.
So at #1, I don't see any reason for you to disagree on your ban in that case.
For #2. He's not my "pro" friend. I just analyze everything I see, and all I see is that he just plays better compared to other players. 90% of the players only got plan A and plan B, they do the same every time. When you played a few times with some players, you will see the same pattern over and over again and they become very predictable and easy to stop.
For example, if people play against me on hospital ambush, I usually take 18Z and rush fireescape to shoot 2nd floor rushers or I rush helipad. Very rarely I go underpass or hospital inside. When I'm escort I always go to the helipad boxes to shoot some people. Very rarely something else. Now almost every other player has a same pattern. When you know them you can counter them easily and get some high scores. No single hack, cheat, exploit or whatever needed to get a good score while just rushing.
I really put some effort in this because my 6th sense makes me worry about all of us since a few weeks.
Something drastically new must be done, fast, otherwise... :shock:
PS : I agree, the progressive way appears to be the most appropriate one, under the condition
that we start fresh new with 10-20 listed OAS servers only and gradually list additional private servers
on a defined pace so the baby can grow healthy again :)
The main problem I see in this approach is for the current server owners. I would like to know their opinion as well. Furthermore do we need a hierarchy of admins on the server? (some with pb_power, some with admin rights?)
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By gradually, I was thinking about the contrary. Reduce the number of home-made servers/non-official servers bit by bit, and adding few more official servers. Maybe we can just limite the servers to one per clan, would be a good start and assist won't have some crazy 150 servers ...
Then seeing how things go we can decide to let some non-official servers live or not.
It could be compared to baby system in China ... or not
By gradually I would mean the same thing, we would have to somehow first limit the server numbers and then go to full official servers if possible.
But saying there can be one server per clan wouldn't work. One could argue it's not a clan server, but a server of a particular member of the clan. And then the clan can have as many servers as there are players in that clan.
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But saying there can be one server per clan wouldn't work. One could argue it's not a clan server, but a server of a particular member of the clan. And then the clan can have as many servers as there are players in that clan.
Why not. A server of a clanmember, is a server for all. I don't see any problem with that. It's time to share servers. Looks ridiculous if every player has a server. All this for what? Feeling powerfull?
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It could be compared to baby system in China ... or not
Thx Ganja ;)
Well you can not compare it to baby system in China, because that policy was
programmed as a long-term goal to reach (reach 1 child per family over 30 years).
Unfortunately, we don't have time..
Starting from the bottom with a limited number of OAS servers only maybe a more
radical solution to some, but has 2 main advantages :
- First, it's easier to implement because you don't have to filter which servers can stay
and which ones should be "unlisted". Taking it all out at once would save time and confusion.
- Second, it would be received as a strong signal by everyone, meaning that hope is out there
and this game may get a part of it's past magic back soon after all.
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Why not. A server of a clanmember, is a server for all. I don't see any problem with that. It's time to share servers. Looks ridiculous if every player has a server. All this for what? Feeling powerfull?
The last part is pretty much the only reason to own a server.
How can you say that this here server belongs to a clan if they don't advertise their name on the servername? Because if they're allowed only one, they won't have their clantag on any probably.
And you can't say who's server it just by it's admins, because some servers have their friends as admins for example.
- Second, it would be received as a strong signal by everyone, sending a strong signal that
hope is out there that this game may get a part of it's past magic back soon after all.
Yes, it would send a strong signal, but the signal is not the kind that everybody would like.
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Yes, it would send a strong signal, but the signal is not the kind that everybody would like.
Strong decisions are never easy to take and in most cases won't please everyone.
In our case. Leaving the whole as it is now would be fatal imo.
There is a time for philosophing and considering all options but that time is long over in
our case, Assist team hast to make strong moves now, fast.
The reason why this still hasn't happened is because most of the topics on the subject
mostly miss the big picture, at some point drown into details and end off-topic or derail
for some reason. Sharing servers for example ist just an implementation example that
can be applied after bigger decisions have been taken.
Dream Assist client we need today exists : it is made of 10 OAS servers and that's it.
On that ground foundation can then gradually be buildt whatever system commkunity decides.
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The last part is pretty much the only reason to own a server.
How can you say that this here server belongs to a clan if they don't advertise their name on the servername? Because if they're allowed only one, they won't have their clantag on any probably.
And you can't say who's server it just by it's admins, because some servers have their friends as admins for example.
Yes, it would send a strong signal, but the signal is not the kind that everybody would like.
We could just delete all the servers (after warning server admins ofcourse so they stop paying) and if people want to make a server, they should come here and do a server claim.
- Why do you want a server?
- What maps are you going to put it on ?
- Are you ready to share admin powers?
- etc ..
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The game has to regain some exclusivity. The right to list a server in Assist
after a fresh start would not be a right anymore but a privilege, implying a
close work with Assist admins to promote the healthy development of our game
and avoid the kind of chaos we have today (30000 downloads, 300 server, 30 players)
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I am one of them with few weeks ago 22 servers, now "only" 18 servers because of aa4 servers running now.
I don't understand this discussion now really. why should it taken away under the control of this admins? tell me one good reason about that, just one.
why did I setup this set of server? - because as I dis start with it, there where only servers with well known maps because they wanted to join players on its servers. so I started to make servers with maps that weren't set. so easy it is. we have now about 130 servers. I agree, to many but am I the guy who would say to another server owner "hey stop that". sure not. this is still a free game in a almost free world. and if you start to make parallels to China - good hopes are in, lol.
bad example, guess one of the most bad you could have taken.
with a big yes you do say we should play more maps. but if there are some servers up and running with almost every of the 98 maps we have its not good. I don't understand. this is going again in the wrong direction. and one thing I would like to say to you: never ever - in here on in your real life - do more thing together then you can handle. this will take not a good end. so I mean we now should start with the Sunday or Monday part. if this goes like we wish, we can do the next step.
by the way: aa4pg do have about 410 servers at the moment. around 40 are officials, the others are all private. almost the private ones are filled up. so make this discussion any sense? I give the answer to myself: NO.
again, it would be nice to get back to its original discussion - let that be for the moment with its private and "official" servers. and for me - an this is not meant as a threat - I would really stop this aa2 if it would go in this direction with "official" servers. and believe it or not, the others would follow, because you would cut them the right of independence!
only my 1 dollar :)
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As expected, one more useless comment of you Merlin.
You prawl on how many servers you run but totally miss the bigger picture and
state of health of this game. Sorry to say this but i think you are a big egoist
and your goal was never to protect vital interests of this game but rather gain
some monopol over the whole thing.
Your approach is the wrong one, not ours.
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My single opinion on this whole matter is:
Yes, community only playing 1 map is bad for getting more players in
Yes, more maps should be played, and yes, assist team can help with that.
No, we should NOT interfere with server owners. I am strongly in favour of it being their choice to take a server or not, just as it is the players choice to play on what server and map they want.
The only thing we can and should do is to make it more attractive to play on other servers/maps. We should not dictate people what to do and what not, we are not parents of children playing this game.
We want people to have fun playing this game, and I think the fun would be gone if we forced people one way only.
I also think it would be an insult to server admins to take such an action. Yes there are abusive server admins around sometimes. But as we are a community, we can also join other teams, or team up with friends, ignore the abusive server, join other servers. When you have 4 friends around you can fill any server you want and I can assure you more players will join.
Radical solutions usually also give radical responses. Do not forget that, and I do not think they are worth it.
The only thing we should and will do, is to encourage others to play a different way, but enforcing them to do everything different is something I personally can not and will not do.
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Bart, the idea of deleting private servers is not only to play other maps, this can be done already even WITH private servers. It could be done to reduce power given to server admins.
Like Pit said, server admins have too much power. It is a fact.
If I want I can :
1) Make a server,
2) Join my server in the morning with a noob account (like raw does) so people join.
3) I put as map Bridge Crossing.
4) In the afternoon my server is full, that is certain, and then I can decide to ban one single player because he was killing me too much (happens with zibi, Im not saying hes clean or anything, dont go off topic, just an exemple)
5) The player is fucked, because there is only one server on bridge crossing. He tries to fill up another server, but it doesn't work. The guy only likes bridge crossing (again, it's his right, for exemple Eliz)
6) Next day I do the same
7) The guy stops playing AA because he was banned on 1 server by a retard server admin who was happy he finally had some powers in life.
Hope it is clear now
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it is the players choice to play on what server and map they want.
There is today almost as much choice today, as there are empty spots on servers.
The only thing we can and should do is to make it more attractive to play on other servers/maps
This has already been tried over and over again, for example so much energy has been put
by some into mAAp. Today it's barely been played.
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As expected, one more useless comment of you Merlin.
You prawl on how many servers you run but totally miss the bigger picture and
state of health of this game. Sorry to say this but i think you are a big egoist
and your goal was never to protect vital interests of this game but rather gain
some monopol over the whole thing.
Your approach is the wrong one, not ours.
I don't get angry anymore about such words. thinking about yourself would be better ..
but thanks for the good feedback. we need exactly that to go on. good job.
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I don't get angry anymore about such words. thinking about yourself would be better ..
but thanks for the good feedback. we need exactly that to go on. good job.
Flipping over the spice and overturning other opinions then those serving your interests
is a special skill of yours, i know. But fact is fact. You may have invested much time and
money in this thing, which i praise. But you are unable or unwilling (?) to see the reality on
the ground and even consider giving up some of what you've built to help the game regenerate.
That is what i mean, and that is mean.
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Bart, the idea of deleting private servers is not only to play other maps, this can be done already even WITH private servers. It could be done to reduce power given to server admins.
Like Pit said, server admins have too much power. It is a fact.
If I want I can :
1) Make a server,
2) Join my server in the morning with a noob account (like raw does) so people join.
3) I put as map Bridge Crossing.
4) In the afternoon my server is full, that is certain, and then I can decide to ban one single player because he was killing me too much (happens with zibi, Im not saying hes clean or anything, dont go off topic, just an exemple)
5) The player is fucked, because there is only one server on bridge crossing. He tries to fill up another server, but it doesn't work. The guy only likes bridge crossing (again, it's his right, for exemple Eliz)
6) Next day I do the same
7) The guy stops playing AA because he was banned on 1 server by a retard server admin who was happy he finally had some powers in life.
Hope it is clear now
I know the problem, I know it's annoying that server admins handle that way, but taking away all of their servers is a solution which I think is worse. Even although I've always been opposed against open slot servers, weapon mod servers and mod servers in general.
Oh, and are we getting official tournament servers for matches all the time? How about the israelian players? And what about people in other countries where we can't just get official servers from.
A solution would be to have donators section for these servers. But do you think many will keep donating for it?
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The only thing we can and should do is to make it more attractive to play on other servers/maps. We should not dictate people what to do and what not, we are not parents of children playing this game.
[/--/]
The only thing we should and will do, is to encourage others to play a different way, but enforcing them to do everything different is something I personally can not and will not do.
I remember when you got a lot of points for playing mAAp Square. I remember SWISS playing a lot on it (mostly for the points I guess).
I'm not saying this is the way to go, but it's a way to go.
And I'm pretty sure Square had such high score points by accident (especially the fact that you got the score even if you were alone on the server), but it's still something that could be done with a few easy (I would think) map edits (only point-wise).
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but to be honest ganja, there is not really a big jump to make for filling up a server. tell me a map and I will show you this evening how it works. even with non members.
but you have to wait - maybe 30-40 minutes (and most are not willing to do so, that's the problem, not the one of the server admins). and then you don't have to kill the player as fast as you can. that's the way it almost every time worked for me to fill a server with any map.
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And I'm pretty sure Square had such high score points by accident (especially the fact that you got the score even if you were alone on the server
this is right teddy. some of you may remember that it was me who did report this error - getting points without another player. unfortunately the point cutting system for force class was implemented then after a while and we stopped playing this map - only with sf guns it was fun.
but in the last 8 weeks we played this map also about 3-4 times at least. just to give other players the change to look at this wonderful map (thank to Spanky).
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I know the problem, I know it's annoying that server admins handle that way, but taking away all of their servers is a solution which I think is worse. Even although I've always been opposed against open slot servers, weapon mod servers and mod servers in general.
Oh, and are we getting official tournament servers for matches all the time? How about the israelian players? And what about people in other countries where we can't just get official servers from.
A solution would be to have donators section for these servers. But do you think many will keep donating for it?
Like I said, don't delete all of them, but we could moderate the shit out of them. Like server claims, explaining why you want to make another server on hospital while there is already one, to see what people actually answer
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sorry to say ganja, but I still believe in a free world :)
already to many restrictions on this planet, no need for one more.
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So let me put some suggestions in the direction the discussion was heading to. I think that more control from above is needed, but not to much.
- next to official servers, devs could certify private servers to official ones, if
- there is a good and strong admin moderation
- server is respected by the community
- no more than 2 servers of a party
- follow an official ruleset by the devs
- only official und certified servers should be tracked
- in the ruleset only these map-rotations are allowed:
1. SF Hospital - SF CSAR
2. Bridge Crossing - Mountain Pass
3. Pipeline - Pipeline SF - Insurgent Camp
4. Urban Assault - Collapsed Tunnel - MMK
5. SF Extraction - SF Courtyard - SF Oasis
6. Weapons Cache - WC SE - Dusk
7. SF Dockside - SF Sandstorm - SF PCR - SF Blizzard
8. SF Village - SF Arctic - SF Taiga - SF Water Treatment
9. Headquaters Raid - JRTC Farm - Swamp Raid
10. Mountain Ambush - River Basin - Woodland Outpost
11. SF Recon - Radio Tower - Mountain Pass SE - Bridge SE
12. 285 - Maps
13. AA3 - Maps
14. Maap
I tried to make the groups small and similar playing style, so it is not that hard for all
hospital and bridge-junkies. ppl, that play regularly one map of a group, often also play
the others. nothing is absolute, other solutions are also possible...
- in the ruleset a few more things should be implemented like
- first person view only for all official and certified/tracked servers
- global banlist
- only allow to play the maps classic style
- .
some other suggestions for the project:
- implement a rewarding system for playing different maps with icons (like donator-icon), similar to the tracker-rankingsystem
- implement aa-watcher into assist for more playing-convenience and less afk
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I do completely disagree with all this.
I try to explain again:
- you all do say only few maps are played - you are right
- you would like to play on more different maps - we do try to get this with effort
- you would like to cut servers and put them under others control - this is in conflict with above
we have about 98 maps available at the moment. and some clans like PUF or mine do try to set servers for maps that are not selectable. by map vote, by setting the servers with that map.
some clans try only to fill up own servers. that's a fact and should be like it is. why? - because of the region the servers are running. some servers like mine do have no good connections to Portugal and other countries, also a fact. but we have good connections to the eastern part of Europe. so let the players choose where to connect. this is still a free world. any restrictions would generate bad results, there I am really sure about.
on the other hand, every playable map should be selectable. with only 30 servers this would be hardly possible - and only for a few players good. so let it bee like it is, even when more servers are generated. and as I did say again, aa4pg has around 410 servers with only 40 official servers. and the most played on are not officials severs. also a fact.
so why should we change a game philosophy done by the game developer?
but a really good thing would be - like in aa4pg - making maps by your own, downloadable from somewhere (not by this community). something like this would grow up this game, not to cut running servers.
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I really like that PUF server is on border for example, but the reason I do not play it, is because it is on sf mod.
I like m16 more, especially on the distance maps.
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ok. but for everybody possible to catch a map vote server without any changes and set it to border.
or - if available by default - to choose another server with border map running.
and this is the thing i really like on all aa games. you can choose by yourself.
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Hackers like you destroy the game pit, don't point at me if its you to blaim.
Of course I'm not going to argue that hacking is something good for a game. I will just note, that in case of AA2, hackers were never the major issue. There are other things that are a much bigger threat to the survival of this game.
Also funny that you banned me with no proof for a flashhack; remember? You had the power, and you abused them to the max! So funny when you talk about admin abuse...
I had a good reason to ban you, the "flash-immunity" of your was observed by many people at that time.
Regarding the "no proof" thing. One of the people that I banned using this way was uber-hacker Hertz, so I consider this as success of this approach.
And about ur serious note, i do the same as you, only i know how to do it and kill without the use of any programs.
And you was for sure really frustrated all this time of that i and the rest who killed you, otherwise you didnt do what you did, so you can stop the mumbling about that.
Facts are there, ur just a bad loser.
I'm really not into your "im pro, you suck" childish argument, so I won't even reply to that. Will mention only that such attitude is one of the major problems in this game.
Therefore : Time has come for Assist to retake control of the whole fucking project
as if the army had just launched version 1.0 of the game.
Your comments are quite good, although I think such drastic measures are not necessary. All it takes is just assist starts to be interested in server admins behaviour _at all_.
And I don't think any server admin would donate to assist instead of renting his server. They don't rent just do increase the servers count. They do it to have the power and control over something.
Uber-centralization is never a good thing. Control hierarchy should have a form of some tree based on trust relationship.
Just look at how linux kernel development works. You have dictator, then generals, then lieutenants, etc. It all works almost perfectly, concerning project of that size.
To sum up: servers don't have to be centralized. All we need is some more control over how their admins behave. Simply write another EULA for server owners. EULA that would say that server admin is not god, but has to adhere to overall assist rules how servers shall be run.
So at #1, I don't see any reason for you to disagree on your ban in that case.
I never disagreed. Can you try to read more carefully next time?
Like Pit said, server admins have too much power. It is a fact.
Glad to see someone actually thinking and judging arguments by their merit, and not by the authors nick.
This has already been tried over and over again, for example so much energy has been put
by some into mAAp. Today it's barely been played.
Correct. You could also mention AA3 maps in the same sentence.
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Pit... I remember you as the most predictable player I've ever encountered in this game. Thousands of hours, one map, one side, one tactic, same spots combined with mediorce aim.
It doesn't really make you the man who can tell whos hacking or not. What I've seen you used your hacks mostly just against normal players you didn't like or just had imaginary thought they use something. I remember that you also hacked against me and tidididi for some reasons I don't know...you stalked me for some time like a 10yo kid, whatever I don't care. Your crusade was so dumb, man..., really. It didn't do anything good at all for this game. Real hackers come and go. For this game hacking was never an issue.
Btw. I'm amazed why guy who sometimes looks for inteligent man comes up with such dumb behaviour. You can all answer to yourself why... ;)
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Server admins have enough power, find another server to play or get ppl to play with you wherever you want or feel good to be in. a Server is like a House, and it has its owner, you only should do what the owner allow you to do, other wise he will kick your ass out of his house (heh, see my avatar :P), its a deal with ppl, not with Assist it self.
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Pit... I remember you as the most predictable player I've ever encountered in this game. Thousands of hours, one map, one side, one tactic, same spots combined with mediorce aim.
Here we go, another "i'm pro, you suck" attitude. Let's see were that goes.
It doesn't really make you the man who can tell whos hacking or not. What I've seen you used your hacks mostly just against normal players you didn't like or just had imaginary thought they use something.
Again, look up my previous statements. The number and significance of those i went after this way, far more outweighs the innocents that got hit by that.
I remember that you also hacked against me and tidididi for some reasons I don't know...you stalked me for some time like a 10yo kid, whatever I don't care. Your crusade was so dumb, man..., really. It didn't do anything good at all for this game.
As for you and tidi... Well... I strongly believe that someone beating up asses of such "pros" like you (exploiting sound to the max, ghosting, etc.) is very healthy for the overall game. It's a leveling thing.
Real hackers come and go. For this game hacking was never an issue.
Thats where we agree.
Btw. I'm amazed why guy who sometimes looks for inteligent man comes up with such dumb behaviour. You can all answer to yourself why... ;)
Here you have your answer: my intelligent looks are just an illusion. I'm just dumb all the way.
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Server admins have enough power, find another server to play or get ppl to play with you wherever you want or feel good to be in. a Server is like a House, and it has its owner, you only should do what the owner allow you to do, other wise he will kick your ass out of his house (heh, see my avatar :P), its a deal with ppl, not with Assist it self.
You just proven that you don't understand the issue that is discussed here.
It's like saying: you can't do anything about anyone who has power, you just have to agree with him kicking you ass, whether it's just or not.
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Pit ur stuck on bs arguments for doing what u did.
You just hated all good players that killed you, after all these years of beeing a freekill you just had enough... so you had ur "payback"
For the rest... well im happy how everything backfired on you.
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Pit ur stuck on bs arguments for doing what u did.
You just hated all good players that killed you, after all these years of beeing a freekill you just had enough... so you had ur "payback"
For the rest... well im happy how everything backfired on you.
How many times do I have to repeat?
I am not interested in discussion with you. The level of argument you present is simply pathetic.
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Nice to see pee-otter having a mature & reasonable discussion. Keep it up.
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You just proven that you don't understand the issue that is discussed here.
It's like saying: you can't do anything about anyone who has power, you just have to agree with him kicking you ass, whether it's just or not.
Depends, unless this person is going against a law/rule/or assist tos :) , otherwise you can't do shit if ppl are fully on their right.
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Depends, unless this person is going against a law/rule/or assist tos :) , otherwise you can't do shit if ppl are fully on their right.
That's why there needs to be more severe rules in the TOS for server admins.
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That's why there needs to be more severe rules in the TOS for server admins.
Not exactly... but what kind of rules then?
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Not exactly... but what kind of rules then?
The kind of rule that says they need to provide VALID reason to ban someone permanently from their server. The rule that says: you pay you rule, but grow up and act like a normal admin
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My server has never banned and I have asked those with admin powers not to do so willy nilly. That said, the server states exactly that which I taught my children .......... 1st time you step out of line you did not know. 2nd time you step out of line you knew but made a mistake. 3rd time and you get handed your arse on a plate!
The rule is simple and is applied as I want more players to join and those that are already on board to stay.
I will not give proof as to why I banned or even query my admins as to why they banned. There are over 100 servers and therefore if you have f/upped on one and are obviously not welcome, fill another.
I have never been banned, why? Simple, my father did not paddle my arse when I transgressed, he whipped me so that I knew never to go that route again. If, I ran crying to my mother she whipped me even worse in support of my father and for even daring to wail to her about it.
We are all big boys and if we cannot fit in? then FO!!!!!!!!
People are constantly crying, bitching and full of piss and vinegar. The shout box says it all.
Some of you should truly read the book on how to make friends and influence people as the failing rate in this department is miserable
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How many times do I have to repeat?
I am not interested in discussion with you. The level of argument you present is simply pathetic.
Mutual respect than. Cause I think ur also pathetic :-)
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Some of you should truly read the book on how to make friends and influence people as the failing rate in this department is miserable
Good book, I recommend it to many as well.
In the eyes of the law, not knowing (your version of 1st offence) does not excuse you from obeying it. Although, in the sense of a computer game your's is an OK rule at times (such as server rules broken and such), other times (like cheating), it should be looked at from a law perspective, though.
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Good book, I recommend it to many as well.
In the eyes of the law, not knowing (your version of 1st offence) does not excuse you from obeying it. Although, in the sense of a computer game your's is an OK rule at times (such as server rules broken and such), other times (like cheating), it should be looked at from a law perspective, though.
Not knowing also comes down to common sense.
Knowing a nade rule is not equal to common sense.
Knowing cheating is unfair is equal to common sense.
So the 2nd deserves less forgiving compared to the first.
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i see resignation everywhere, especially of the dev-side, which suites the stagnation and sinking playerbase.
unless u can provide more maps to be played on a regular basis, this project is dying.
with the rotation set people can expect, if they open assist, to play at least 10-12 of the most popular maps in army-history in a short timeframe. to play once in a week another map for an evening is nice, but wont change anything in the big picture.
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Here we go, another "i'm pro, you suck" attitude. Let's see were that goes.
It's not about any pro thing, I have never considered myself as 'pro' you mean. Being realistic and honest sometimes hurts other people and gets interpreted as rude attitude, but hey, it's life.
Again, look up my previous statements. The number and significance of those i went after this way, far more outweighs the innocents that got hit by that.
It's your opinion, as we all can see you're outnumbered in it. Sorry.
As for you and tidi... Well... I strongly believe that someone beating up asses of such "pros" like you (exploiting sound to the max, ghosting, etc.) is very healthy for the overall game. It's a leveling thing.
It's sick attitude and it's rather impossible to have a conversation with you on this. You simply don't get it. I believe it's not only my opinion. Absolutely other thing is what you mean by exploiting. If you call it owning 40 euro soundcard, cheapest sennheisers and setting it up to my needs in Volume Panel then ok, I don't have more questions :D Maybe you're the one of those people who listen to 128kbps VBR on AC97 on some 'high end' speakers and say that quality is good and satisfies you, not my problem.
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You can not expect from us to force players to play on the way we want. If they like their maps, so be it. But we can try to encourage them to play other maps as well.
For the rotation part, I actually like that idea. But forcing people to play other maps against their will is a no-go for me.
Calling it a resignation from our side is a bit too easy said imo. It's just the problem that we have to be careful with our decisions as well, I still remember a decision in the past with good intentions that almost shut down the whole project. And I don't want to lose anybody from the current playerbase either, since there are many players which still enjoy this game daily the way it is now.
Another question I would like to ask, why would the project die when the same maps are being played, and how would providing more maps to be played stop the game from dying? What is the relationship between these 2? Because I don't see it. I see most of the younger audience as people who do not like waiting a lot. What would cater them is respawns, fast rounds, run & gun, and I do not see that fit with this game either. How would more long distance maps save the game when most people do not have the patience to play that map in a decent way?
I would like to see some arguments with that instead of loose suggestions because the game will die otherwise.
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You can not expect from us to force players to play on the way we want. If they like their maps, so be it. But we can try to encourage them to play other maps as well.
For the rotation part, I actually like that idea. But forcing people to play other maps against their will is a no-go for me.
Calling it a resignation from our side is a bit too easy said imo. It's just the problem that we have to be careful with our decisions as well, I still remember a decision in the past with good intentions that almost shut down the whole project. And I don't want to lose anybody from the current playerbase either, since there are many players which still enjoy this game daily the way it is now.
Another question I would like to ask, why would the project die when the same maps are being played, and how would providing more maps to be played stop the game from dying? What is the relationship between these 2? Because I don't see it. I see most of the younger audience as people who do not like waiting a lot. What would cater them is respawns, fast rounds, run & gun, and I do not see that fit with this game either. How would more long distance maps save the game when most people do not have the patience to play that map in a decent way?
I would like to see some arguments with that instead of loose suggestions because the game will die otherwise.
aapg has or had (dont know, played it in the beginning only) also a rotation principle, as other games also do. a lot of things get forced, the question is always what and how. does it help us or not? if u dont risk something, u gain nothing. if u only make preservation than innovation and invest something, ur project will prabably fail in the future.
if the same maps are being played, u have like a monoculture, which is really fragile. people get bored and stop playing. im sure lots of them would play other similar maps, but is there a possiblity to? if other maps are being put together, that have a similar playing style and also community, they will probably stay on the server and also play the next map.
lets take urban assault for example. if u are a regular urban-player, i think u would appreciate it, to also play some tunnel and mout. the playing style is similar and the community a few years ago was probably one.
a hospital-player would probably also play maps like csar, extraction, courtyard, village etc.
this would only be a slight forcing...
with more maps played on a regular basis monomap-players of other maps could be reattracted and kept staying. of course this is only a theory or assumption, practice has to show.
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the rotation maps are also a part of aa4pg, that's correct. and as you can see, players do leave when changing maps. so it is.
you can see some statistics about monoculture - map playing like mine. 10 different maps in 4 days isn't monoculture right? and I did not really played with myself :D
so we are on the good way to have more maps playable, this is for sure. and I am glad to see this.
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the fuck are you talking about merlin, seriously get of the meds.
so why should we change a game philosophy done by the game developer?
Because if not it's gonna die you moron.
You are able to assess the situation as well as we do, the game attendance is obviously
catastrophic and you talk about sticking to "big principles" and "philosophy"...
Open your eyes and stop talkin shit please, my headache pills are running out.
But forcing people to play other maps against their will is a no-go for me.
If from tomorrow on you list only servers running a special map and the next
day the same with an other map ist not forcing people, it's just leaving them less
choice. But you know well what happened in older times as auth went down or
holiday time came . People played any shit available cause they were addicted.
That's the only way to make people play other maps imo.
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I didn't even have inspiration to read all these 7 pages until i saw some good ideas from zoxee.
There are people who agree and disagree. People with big picture and people that just don't understand the real situation
I had a grin on my face, because i know that the discussions never succeed, its never done and it always comes up as a pointless approach. We all know that this won't happen not until eliz and most of admins agree with this.
The reason why this game is dying because of the maps played, the behaviour of the admins, the unlimited servers that never being played. I agree and thankful to admins giving me another chance to play but I also agree that hacking and cheating isn't a major problem, it never was. The new client, the new major updates never brought a lot of players, it did but not permanently. Me and spanky used to see player base grow to almost 200 players when the new client came out, over even but as a days went and the players went down.
There are only 2 options i see available.
1. Force people to play different maps. Delete and remove servers and leave 20 official servers.
2. Lets it stay as it is, lets try to ''encourage'' them as we always try to do and see the game die.
''It's so pff, not here to hurt anyone but when we talk about encourage others to play other maps its just not working, have you guys not noticed that yet? we tried to encourage them for years and all we get is lose a lose situation.''
Its true, when you banned on popular server where the most players play its so sad. For a player it leaves one option as to leave the game.
When i was on TS, guys spoke to me as a good ideas i made in the first post, they wondered where the mods gone, there is no more fun left, the situation is critical here, its always been here.
Situation is clear, you approach and succeed or you leave all this as it is and see the game die. Its sad that people dont want changes, they just dont see a bigger picture, they dont understand all the situation. Its so pff, thats why my inspiration and battle to makes changes flies away.
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One of the best times I had on AA2 was at the end when respawn was on most maps. That was good. But you need to let ppl know it still available. I see a few ppl coming in latley that are coming back. I think there is still a large potential for the game. BF3/4 COD3/4 are all crap and there dying off again. AA2 lives forever.
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Don't be naive guys, no matter what admins change the amont of players won't increase. As someone said previously you can't impose maps that players don't want to play, so if you ask me i would say to leave things as they are, let the few players left have fun playing maps they like.
As for Pit, it's actually funny he talking about server admins abuse when he deliberately abused his status of Assist admin to ban players without proof just because he though/guessed/belived they were hacking.
The number and significance of those i went after this way, far more outweighs the innocents that got hit by that.
You really don't have any clue about the damage you caused, do you? Doing one thing right don't compensate the shit you pulled to make it.
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Guys, please stop the personal attacks here okay?
As far as I've read the suggestions, I must say personally I do agree on what Saltuarius posted with respect to map rotations, but I am still against forcing people on different servers. I do think enabling map rotation possibilities would never hurt.
I do not know though how easy it would be to implement map rotation possibilities for the server admins. I am not involved in coding the game or anything in any way, all I am doing is taking care of anti cheat logs and giving my opinion on stuff. This is why I can't speak about whether it is definitely possible or not.
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the rotation maps are also a part of aa4pg, that's correct. and as you can see, players do leave when changing maps. so it is.
you can see some statistics about monoculture - map playing like mine. 10 different maps in 4 days isn't monoculture right? and I did not really played with myself :D
Not sure which AAPG servers you play on Merlin, but i don't see so many players leaving when the server switches to another map. Also because the default setting is for a map rotation, and until a few months ago the default match set was made of 9 rounds, so people were used to play different maps in a row because it was obvious to do so, most matches used to last not more than 15-20 mins by average, so it's not like it makes a huge difference (now the default match set is made of 15 but the idea is still valid). There are a few clan servers running with no map rotation, not so many overall tho.
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Here is a recent shoutbox entry:
"-wA'tNc.troy- 1D [ASSIST]
look i want play on ua, i cant... and its the only one server with ppls online :/ i wont play bridge or hospital !"
It is a _PERFECT_ example of what I was talking about. Assuming this dude hasn't made something gross, he just has been practically eliminated from AA, by a single server admin.
How can you not recognize that this is a serious issue nowadays? Let me repeat: LOCAL ban works like GLOBAL ban, in an AA we have today (handful of active servers, and most of players used to 1 maps).
As for Pit [...] You really don't have any clue about the damage you caused, do you? Doing one thing right don't compensate the shit you pulled to make it.
Unlike you, I know exactly what I did. If you have any concrete examples, please post it. I will just note, that the playerbase did not drop at all during my "damage time"...
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I will just note, that the playerbase did not drop at all during my "damage time"...
True.
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How can you not recognize that this is a serious issue nowadays? Let me repeat: LOCAL ban works like GLOBAL ban, in an AA we have today (handful of active servers, and most of players used to 1 maps).
I actually agree with this. It's the reason why I can't play BF2 and BFBC2 anymore. Too much trollololol =\
AA is even worse since the playerbase is smaller. There should be a section of forum where admins of servers are allowed to provide reasonable proof for a ban and if there really is cause for it, it should be a global ban anyway.
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I actually agree with this. It's the reason why I can't play BF2 and BFBC2 anymore. Too much trollololol =\
AA is even worse since the playerbase is smaller. There should be a section of forum where admins of servers are allowed to provide reasonable proof for a ban and if there really is cause for it, it should be a global ban anyway.
That's a bad idea. What about kicks and bans for violating certain rules that are not universal on all servers? Like Hospital 203 spam? A global ban would be a bit ridiculous.
Bad server admins may be a problem, but taking all of the power away from them and giving it to us is not a good solution.
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I actually agree with this. [...]
The dummiest of assist admins finally understood. Now it will be downhill. ;-D
That's a bad idea. What about kicks and bans for violating certain rules that are not universal on all servers? Like Hospital 203 spam? A global ban would be a bit ridiculous.
Bad server admins may be a problem, but taking all of the power away from them and giving it to us is not a good solution.
You are correct, the solution is not easy, and the radical path is definitely not the good one (I already explained that full centralization is _not_ the way to go).
On the other hand: there aren't that many map-specific rules out there, are they? I'm hosp expert (although I started on Sandstorm, the best map eva :-P), so I dunno.
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I actually agree with this. It's the reason why I can't play BF2 and BFBC2 anymore. Too much trollololol =\
AA is even worse since the playerbase is smaller. There should be a section of forum where admins of servers are allowed to provide reasonable proof for a ban and if there really is cause for it, it should be a global ban anyway.
Then you find a way to play, solving the issue or just move on.
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That's a bad idea. What about kicks and bans for violating certain rules that are not universal on all servers? Like Hospital 203 spam? A global ban would be a bit ridiculous.
Bad server admins may be a problem, but taking all of the power away from them and giving it to us is not a good solution.
You are correct, the solution is not easy, and the radical path is definitely not the good one (I already explained that full centralization is _not_ the way to go).
After an additional minute of thinking, here is the solution I propose. It is simple and solves the most important aspect (server admins having too much power):
Allow server admins only to give temporary bans (e.g. max. 2-weeks). Permanent bans may be given only by assist admins (after appropriate proof is given, etc., using standard complain path).
Of course it's not perfect, but I think it would be quite good first step.
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After an additional minute of thinking, here is the solution I propose. It is simple and solves the most important aspect (server admins having too much power):
Allow server admins only to give temporary bans (e.g. max. 2-weeks). Permanent bans may be given only by assist admins (after appropriate proof is given, etc., using standard complain path).
Of course it's not perfect, but I think it would be quite good first step.
Not a bad idea, but the problem I see arising is how exactly will we know how long a server admin has banned a player for? We can't actually prevent them from permanently banning players(at least not that I know of) so we'd have to trust server admins to follow the rules, and not everybody visits AAO25 either.
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Certain things sure will make more players leave and as well the Server owners, so be careful.
Less servers = More private bans, less place to play, less players.
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Not a bad idea, but the problem I see arising is how exactly will we know how long a server admin has banned a player for?
Yes, currently this information is not available at the auth server. But I believe that with moderate effort, it could be.
Anyway, I just wanted to touch on the idea, not the technical details.
so we'd have to trust server admins to follow the rules
YES, and this is the essence of the general scheme I was talking about. Remeber my mumbling about how linux kernel development is organised (BTW, Linus just got the IEEE Computer Pioneer Award)? Whatever you do, the server admins have to be in a trust-relationship with the assist admins.
In a huge community like in mainstream games, you don't need it. Server admins are free to abuse, as players have choice and can just go elsewhere. But in today's AA, it's different.
Certain things sure will make more players leave and as well the Server owners, so be careful.
Less servers = More private bans, less place to play, less players.
Of course, that's why admitted that good solution is not trivial.
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As far as individual server rules, the majority of them could easily be implemented globally. The majority of the ones I've seen are don't be an ass, don't spam for the first 30 seconds and stuff like that. Those should be standard rules.
I'm just thinking here in terms of ease of implementation. Remove or empty banlist periodically on Assist and let server admins present a case against a player for a ban issued by Assist admins. It's a whole lot simpler than allowing access for server admins to ban for 2 weeks wherever they see fit. What happens after the 2 weeks is up? They could just ban again. Whereas if it's more of a public witchhunt and non-biased neutral Assist admins can accept/deny the case for a ban, it's a lot simpler. Might bring more people to this website as well.
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so we'd have to trust server admins to follow the rules.
- Define a new set of policy rules for private server owners.
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As far as individual server rules, the majority of them could easily be implemented globally. The majority of the ones I've seen are don't be an ass, don't spam for the first 30 seconds and stuff like that. Those should be standard rules.
I'm just thinking here in terms of ease of implementation. Remove or empty banlist periodically on Assist and let server admins present a case against a player for a ban issued by Assist admins. It's a whole lot simpler than allowing access for server admins to ban for 2 weeks wherever they see fit. What happens after the 2 weeks is up? They could just ban again. Whereas if it's more of a public witchhunt and non-biased neutral Assist admins can accept/deny the case for a ban, it's a lot simpler. Might bring more people to this website as well.
Actually if you talk about spam, spamshots are not the problem imo, the problem is more with 203 in general, people walk with it pulled out for cheap kills.
I never had a problem with spam in any way, sure I might die once in .... times, but that's not as bad as people just walking with 203 out on hospi for an easy frag.
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Spam only affects one type of player. Rusher, Camper are only killed with spam once in a while. I never had a problem with ppl just walking with 203 out of any where :) Its different for different types of player.
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Spam only affects one type of player. Rusher, Camper are only killed with spam once in a while. I never had a problem with ppl just walking with 203 out of any where :) Its different for different types of player.
Dropshots are the way to go on longrange maps for campers, DP hill on mountain pass, east hilltop bridge SE etc. Shame they limited the 203's on these maps from 6 to 3
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Spam only affects one type of player. Rusher, Camper are only killed with spam once in a while. I never had a problem with ppl just walking with 203 out of any where :) Its different for different types of player.
I actually dodge the spams by rushing fast enough over the right places, However when I rush to underpass with ar I always get blown up by somebody who is waiting with 203 out.
The campers are the one who are not influenced by this, yet dropshots might stop them.
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I think the community starts to understand other maps are cool aswell. We don't have to force anything for the moment, just let people play what they want, I see already a lot of players changing their habits, which makes me happy :)
Been very active these last 2 days , and I was able to play 13 different maps (in 2 days) according to my tracker, which is kinda nice. Plus with the "nightfights" people will learn to play other maps and will learn to enjoy them too.
I think we're on a good way
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Dropshots are the way to go on longrange maps for campers, DP hill on mountain pass, east hilltop bridge SE etc. Shame they limited the 203's on these maps from 6 to 3
Defence Hill was actually easy to hit without dropshooting from almost every position, but bombing defence side of Central Peak with 5-6 nades while your team was rushing it was fun ;)
I'm pretty sure we had 7, not 6 nades btw.
I actually dodge the spams by rushing fast enough over the right places,
Yeah, you did the same on early sandstorm ;)
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Defence Hill was actually easy to hit without dropshooting from almost every position, but bombing defence side of Central Peak with 5-6 nades while your team was rushing it was fun ;)
I'm pretty sure we had 7, not 6 nades btw. Yeah, you did the same on early sandstorm ;)
Yeah for sure, but being mp, you'd see the 203 coming if you just fired them normally towards them, giving them the chance to move away instead of getting it dropped on their head without them knowing. And yes, 7 it was :) (unless you had 255/6 and auto fired the 203 which was fucking awesome btw)
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At least I dropshot the RPG on the strykers at sf arctic.
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At least I dropshot the RPG on the strykers at sf arctic.
The RPG spam on Recon was legendary, got a double kill in the 6v6 SF ladder there once in Nordbat. My proudest moment in AA.
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I think the community starts to understand other maps are cool aswell. We don't have to force anything for the moment, just let people play what they want, I see already a lot of players changing their habits, which makes me happy :)
Been very active these last 2 days , and I was able to play 13 different maps (in 2 days) according to my tracker, which is kinda nice. Plus with the "nightfights" people will learn to play other maps and will learn to enjoy them too.
I think we're on a good way
:up:
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I think the community starts to understand other maps are cool aswell. We don't have to force anything for the moment, just let people play what they want, I see already a lot of players changing their habits, which makes me happy :)
Been very active these last 2 days , and I was able to play 13 different maps (in 2 days) according to my tracker, which is kinda nice. Plus with the "nightfights" people will learn to play other maps and will learn to enjoy them too.
I think we're on a good way
We see how long it last, and changes needed u want them or not.
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We see how long it last, and changes needed u want them or not.
What does that even mean ?
This sounds like: I decide there must be changes, because I know everything about the game, so I don't care wheter you like it or not. Which is kinda arrogant. Correct me if I'm wrong
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Just saying that you are an old schooler and changes that needs to be changed wont bother you in any way. In which you are wrong. Once again we open topic, and some old schooler comes up opens his mouth that everything is okay for a few days, no, because eventually we will come back to it and discussion is getting boring now because i don't see any movement. Ganja will you take all responsibility to leave this as it is? I bet we come to this again:)
You and merlin simply against this now...as u see some progress, like we did see progress when player base was growing it went back to normal...so if we leave as it is we will come back to this and i didnt open a topic for 9 pages long to get an answer leave it as it is.... even tho I believe this will be ignored of what u said since the reason is obvious of whats causing in this community. Yet i know its up to eliz to make this decision:)
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As far as individual server rules, the majority of them could easily be implemented globally. The majority of the ones I've seen are don't be an ass, don't spam for the first 30 seconds and stuff like that. Those should be standard rules.
I'm just thinking here in terms of ease of implementation. Remove or empty banlist periodically on Assist and let server admins present a case against a player for a ban issued by Assist admins. It's a whole lot simpler than allowing access for server admins to ban for 2 weeks wherever they see fit. What happens after the 2 weeks is up? They could just ban again. Whereas if it's more of a public witchhunt and non-biased neutral Assist admins can accept/deny the case for a ban, it's a lot simpler. Might bring more people to this website as well.
I don't like the idea of forcing a bunch of rules on server owners though.
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Just saying that you are an old schooler and changes that needs to be changed wont bother you in any way. In which you are wrong. Once again we open topic, and some old schooler comes up opens his mouth that everything is okay for a few days, no, because eventually we will come back to it and discussion is getting boring now because i don't see any movement. Ganja will you take all responsibility to leave this as it is? I bet we come to this again:)
You and merlin simply against this now...as u see some progress, like we did see progress when player base was growing it went back to normal...so if we leave as it is we will come back to this and i didnt open a topic for 9 pages long to get an answer leave it as it is.... even tho I believe this will be ignored of what u said since the reason is obvious of whats causing in this community. Yet i know its up to eliz to make this decision:)
Did you even read peoples replies? Some people have come up with quiet good ideas, it's still being discussed as you see. And how am I wrong? I stated that I was able to play 13 maps in 2 days, which is obviously a progress, so I believe we're on a good way regarding the maps that are played
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Can't be bothered to quote so i say it again, 2 days is not enough and this wont last long... I agree with zoxxe ideas, dont worry i didnt miss any of them.
You say you played 13 maps in 2 days, well done with your achievement, but what makes me angry is your opinion to leave everything as it is as you see 2 day progress...
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Can't be bothered to quote so i say it again, 2 days is not enough and this wont last long... I agree with zoxxe ideas, dont worry i didnt miss any of them.
You say you played 13 maps in 2 days, well done with your achievement, but what makes me angry is your opinion to leave everything as it is as you see 2 day progress...
The thing is, it all depends on the players. We can't force them to play other maps, so we're trying to get enough people together to try to encourage players to play different maps. It's been working pretty well over here on the NA side. On Monday's and Tuesdays for the last 2 weeks we've player AA3 Alley, AA3 Impact, SF Blizzard, SF Water Treatment, mAAp City Block, mAAp Square, SF PCR, 285 Interdiction, AA3 Shantytown, and some others I can't quite remember.
The point is, if you take the initiative to try to start a server that plays different maps, people usually do join. You just need around 3 people to get things started, at least that's how it is for the NA side.
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I don't like the idea of forcing a bunch of rules on server owners though.
Well you have forced other thinhs on ppl whither they wanted it or not.
Any way. I dont see what harm would be in, agreing in some basic simple standard rules.
No 203s in 1st 30 secs etc
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Well you have forced other thinhs on ppl whither they wanted it or not.
Any way. I dont see what harm would be in, agreing in some basic simple standard rules.
No 203s in 1st 30 secs etc
Like what? Care to elaborate? A lot of the features implemented had public votes to see if players wanted it.
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To me, implementing global rules is impossible. For me, people renting a server should have complete freedom in what they want to do with it. If that includes mods, they get untracked. What would you do with servers that don't enforce certain rules, e.g. the no spam in the first 30 seconds one?
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To me, implementing global rules is impossible. For me, people renting a server should have complete freedom in what they want to do with it. If that includes mods, they get untracked. What would you do with servers that don't enforce certain rules, e.g. the no spam in the first 30 seconds one?
This. actually you can run 'custom' mods, but without tracking stats/honor.
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This. actually you can run 'custom' mods, but without tracking stats/honor.
That's what he said, it would get untracked.
I've refrained from writing in this thread again for a while now, but oh well.
I certainly understand people's frustration about the maps being played (which is not many different ones most of the time). I can also appreciate all the wonderful input and suggestions that have been brought up in this thread.
However, most (if not all) of the suggestions require more work for us administrators. And while we're not here just to 'idle', giving volunteers more work doesn't seem like a good idea, everyone here has a life outside the game as well.
And I'm not talking about work needed to make some of the suggestions happen (coding), but rather the day-to-day operations that are bound to come from those things.
I am also of the opinion that forcing people to play a certain way (i.e play more maps/maps they don't like) is not a good way to go. I would guess most (not all!) map whores who come online and don't see their map played would rather not play than play a map they don't know/like.
And that's why it seems to me, that like Ganja said, we're doing a decent job in advertising different maps to be played. Those who want to do it, can; others will still probably have a server on the mainstream maps. There's nothing that can be done about that.
Like has been said, implementing the same rules for all servers is next to impossible. Not to mention, different maps would require different rules. In some maps 203 spam is an issue, in others it would be dumb not to be able to shoot 203s before 30 seconds (i.e you would be able to see enemies before that time is up). Plus, like I said it would mean the Assist admins would have to 'admin' that stuff as well (make sure they're obeying the rules, punish those who don't and so on).
As for forcing people on things whether they wanted it or not, you're right in a sense. There has almost always been a vote before a change to the game/gameplay. And I'm pretty sure not one of them has come up unanimous, so there are obviously some people who didn't get what they wanted. Not to mention the fact that some of the changes were implemented before the Assist poll was introduced, thus it's possible the voters may have been biased.
I know our player base is low and it has been higher at times. But that doesn't mean radical changes would increase our player base. People just don't like change. At all. An example I always love to bring is when the devs tried to 'fix' the 'roof bug' on SF Hospital. People just came complaining and it had to be changed back. It wasn't because it was a particularly bad change (it might have been, I don't know, but that's not why people disputed it), it was that something changed and people don't like that.
Now lets all do whatever we can do bring back old or bring forth new players and let's start from ourselves when talking about map diversity. There's plenty of people talking here, but how many can really say they play as many maps as they can every day? I know I can't.
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Good conclusion.
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However, most (if not all) of the suggestions require more work for us administrators. And while we're not here just to 'idle', giving volunteers more work doesn't seem like a good idea, everyone here has a life outside the game as well.
If you are not willing to spend your private time on administrating, then give up your role to someone more eager and appropriate. It's that simple.
E.g. it looks like Ganja would be a good candidate. He spends 90% of his time on AA, so he would have no problem with doing admin's work.
I am also of the opinion that forcing people to play a certain way (i.e play more maps/maps they don't like) is not a good way to go. I would guess most (not all!) map whores who come online and don't see their map played would rather not play than play a map they don't know/like.
You are 100% correct, even thinking about forcing someone to play maps he doesn't like is just ridiculous.
Like has been said, implementing the same rules for all servers is next to impossible. [...]
As I already mentioned, hard rules for all servers are not necessary. Just do _anything_ about power-misusing owners, and it will be a huge step.
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If you are not willing to spend your private time on administrating, then give up your role to someone more eager and appropriate. It's that simple.
I'm not saying I don't want to put in the time here, I do, I want to help as much as I can. What I'm saying is, since the admin team is voluntary, the best case would be not to have too much work for them, because believe it or not, the majority of people don't want to put their time in for anything voluntarily.
As for abusive admins, as of now there's little we can do, but who knows what the future might hold.
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I'm not saying I don't want to put in the time here, I do, I want to help as much as I can. What I'm saying is, since the admin team is voluntary, the best case would be not to have too much work for them, because believe it or not, the majority of people don't want to put their time in for anything voluntarily.
Of course solutions that involve tedious manual work are bad.
But hey, this shouldn't be something new to you guys. All this management of "1 account only" rule is already tons of manual work now. Just look at "can someone active my account, please" messages in shoutbox - they are appearing every day.
As for abusive admins, as of now there's little we can do, but who knows what the future might hold.
If you would admit that "we don't want to do nothing about it", I would be ok (from a logic point of view).
But you have written "there's little we can do". That's an obviously false statement. I'm dissapointed to hear that from a person that is involved in math.
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They should make me admin iam british after all =p
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Latest shoutbox entry:
"..Ba^La..Kengacero 2m [ASSIST]
@LE=M!chelzim: Ban Removido (Ban Removed) Ba^La Server"
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it a proof that this discussion has already made some real impact?
LOL
See? That's what I was trying to explain to you. All it takes is to create a bit of pressure. Admins that knowingly abuse will recognize this pressure immediately and will correct their actions.
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Of course solutions that involve tedious manual work are bad.
But hey, this shouldn't be something new to you guys. All this management of "1 account only" rule is already tons of manual work now. Just look at "can someone active my account, please" messages in shoutbox - they are appearing every day.
I wonder who caused that policy to be put into place?
Seriously though, I think what he meant was that we already have enough stuff to keep track of, adding on more stuff would be counterproductive to the game. People complain that we don't play enough but then want to give us more work to do.
If you would admit that "we don't want to do nothing about it", I would be ok (from a logic point of view).
But you have written "there's little we can do". That's an obviously false statement. I'm dissapointed to hear that from a person that is involved in math.
We don't want to do anything about it, at least not right now. We want to fix the issue, but there aren't any obvious solutions to go about doing it.
For example, forcing rules onto server admins wouldn't work because, as someone else pointed out, what would be the punishment for not enforcing said rules? We can't ban someone for not enforcing a 30 sec no spam rule, that's ridiculous. Also, the manual labor in making sure servers don't ban players permanently would be ridiculous. We'd also run the risk of punishing a clan leader and their whole clan abandoning AA, which we obvious wouldn't want.
One idea that could work would be a server blacklist. Something that, if given enough proof (and it would have to be a lot), we could put a server on the list of servers for people to avoid. That or take it a step further and disable tracking on it.
This entire discussion has one huge problem though. Most of these server issues tend to be a he said she said situation with different stories from both sides. We can't believe one player over another so most of these abuses would go unpunished or undocumented due to lack of proof.
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[...] We don't want to do anything about it, at least not right now. We want to fix the issue, but there
aren't any obvious solutions to go about doing it. [...]
And such statement is perfectly acceptable for me, unlike the Teddy's ("there is nothing we can do").
For example, forcing rules onto server admins wouldn't work because, as someone else pointed out, what would be the punishment for not enforcing said rules? We can't ban someone for not enforcing a 30 sec no spam rule, that's ridiculous.
Of cours it's ridiculous, let's discuss only the reasonable ideas.
Also, the manual labor in making sure servers don't ban players permanently would be ridiculous.
Here we disagree, the effort doesn't have to be large, just pay _ANY_ attention, FFS. (sorry for the explenative, but it's frustrating how many times do I have to repeat this one single fact).
We'd also run the risk of punishing a clan leader and their whole clan abandoning AA, which we obvious wouldn't want.
Here you are being inconsistent with your actions (as assist admin(s)). Normally, when you are trying to persue some ideas that you consider "right", you accept the fact that some people may leave. Take for example the screenshotting thing, the training thing, etc, etc. So far you acted like admins that dictate the rules and it was all right.
Now, you claim to be afraid that "some" players may get annoyed and leave.
I say you are being inconsistent with yourself.
This entire discussion has one huge problem though. Most of these server issues tend to be a he said she said situation with different stories from both sides. We can't believe one player over another so most of these abuses would go unpunished or undocumented due to lack of proof.
You are being inconsistent again. You banned players just because of some screenshots illustrating they have TK-ed. Why can't you use the same approach for server owners???
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And such statement is perfectly acceptable for me, unlike the Teddy's ("there is nothing we can do").
Of cours it's ridiculous, let's discuss only the reasonable ideas.
Here we disagree, the effort doesn't have to be large, just pay _ANY_ attention, FFS. (sorry for the explenative, but it's frustrating how many times do I have to repeat this one single fact).
Here you are being inconsistent with your actions (as assist admin(s)). Normally, when you are trying to persue some ideas that you consider "right", you accept the fact that some people may leave. Take for example the screenshotting thing, the training thing, etc, etc. So far you acted like admins that dictate the rules and it was all right.
Now, you claim to be afraid that "some" players may get annoyed and leave.
I say you are being inconsistent with yourself.
You are being inconsistent again. You banned players just because of some screenshots illustrating they have TK-ed. Why can't you use the same approach for server owners???
For the TK part, we can actually look up their stats and ROE. It's physical evidence. Who knows how one sided a screenshot of a conversation is? They could have instigated it earlier and it doesn't show the whole conversation anymore in the chat. What if we get a report of an unjust banning, yet there's no proof and the server admin claims the player was being rude and disruptive? Who knows what actually happened and even if someone did decide to take a screenshot, there's no telling if that was all that was said or done. It's a lot flimsier. There is no inconsistency here, we have hard proof that someone went on a TKing spree or a long time, in an admin abuse case we just have words that each side said and a screenshot that may not show the whole situation.
Also, while I get what you're saying about inconsistency concerning the fear of leaving players, there will be a point where enough is enough for some players. Just because they haven't left yet doesn't mean they won't if we tighten our grip even more on previously unregulated aspects of the game.
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You just presented a leveled tone, that seems reasonable to me. I feel like I agree with you. But still I will present another view:
When you are ruling/admining/governing/etc., you shall follow _values_. You shall not be feared about wheather someone will leave. You shall have a vision about what you want to achieve, and you shall follow that vision.
Admitting that server owners abuse players, and doing _nothing_ about it, just because you fear them going away... It just doesn't sound right. It doesn't fit the vision of AA you seemed to be fighting for.
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i can't understand for the life of me pit, why you haven't been trying to do all this when you where here with assist when people did somewhat like you before all the bullshit you pulled??
people that pay for there servers have there right to do what they want on there server, assist taking that over will only shut down servers
i know if i paid for a server i would not want a outside source telling me what i can and can not do with my server i pay for
since atas left not too many kick/ban happy admins,
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You just presented a leveled tone, that seems reasonable to me. I feel like I agree with you. But still I will present another view:
When you are ruling/admining/governing/etc., you shall follow _values_. You shall not be feared about wheather someone will leave. You shall have a vision about what you want to achieve, and you shall follow that vision.
Admitting that server owners abuse players, and doing _nothing_ about it, just because you fear them going away... It just doesn't sound right. It doesn't fit the vision of AA you seemed to be fighting for.
It's not just about having a vision of what needs to be done, because without players to play, our vision is nothing. This game was made for the players, it's not some side project Eliz is doing for himself. The players always come first. We have to find the delicate balance between minimizing problems and keeping as many players as possible.
Sure doing nothing may not sound right, but when weighed against the possible fixes, it may be the most logical course of action, or non-action in this case.
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Teddy's ("there is nothing we can do").
If you read my post (and I believe you did, since you quoted it earlier), you'd see I wrote "there's little we can do".
What I meant by that is, that there obviously is something we could do (i.e ban someone or stop tracking their server or w/e), but we currently don't want to do it, since it might not be a fitting punishment.
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since atas left not too many kick/ban happy admins,
I got a life ban yesterday for telling KK missile hes still a camper. :)
Went to there web site for a quick look and guess what most of what I seen there, are all campers to. Wont get much sympathy there lol. And I got IGC ban for excat same thing with Zoran. Some ppl dont like the truth. Are they embarrassed?
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there is a fact you can not ignore (and i try to give an example - i hope you will understand it because my english isn't that good):
example 1: a car seller like ford with its new mustangs are telling the consumer after they did buy one of it, that they do have to take all hichhikers with them when one is standing there.
example 2: your landlord are telling you - after you did sign the contract for the rent - that you can not take black ladies with you at your flat, nor a boy at all.
so this is the fact that you can not change something like you wish - just because you think it has to. the one who did buy a mustang will bring it back as soon as possible and the landlord would have an empty flat.
what i would like to say is that i agree that some rules are necessary - everywhere. but to much of them will bring the contrary allways. and i do repeat myself: if you really cut back the admin rights of the server owners, it would bring more troubles then positive effects. there i am sure.
and from an other point of view: as the landlord i can make rules as i like. when one is signing my contract and he is willing to follow it, i can say you should not take boys or black ladies at your flat. so can server owners do what they like to do because YOU decided to join their servers with its good or its bad things. and because he is responsible for whatever he is standing for, he can do what he likes to do.
this is the reality all over the world - and its good like it is, because YOU have to adapt the practise of it when you are a guest somewhere, not the hosts.
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if you really cut back the admin rights of the server owners, it would bring more troubles then positive effects. there i am sure.
Well yeah, that's the sad truth. Server admins wouldn't play the game anymore if they didn't have power to decide who can or cannot play with them ...
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Normally, when you are trying to persue some ideas that you consider "right", you accept the fact that some people may leave. Take for example the screenshotting thing, the training thing, etc, etc. So far you acted like admins that dictate the rules and it was all right.
Now, you claim to be afraid that "some" players may get annoyed and leave.
True.
there will be a point where enough is enough for some players.
Wrong. AA is addictive, players will always play.
And if you dictate the right thing, they'll follow along, believe me.
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but when a player get banned from more than 2-3 servers from different owners, there must be a understandable reason. then i would not search for a restriction of admin power, then i would search by myself, right? :)
and for the others which might have a ban by a clan or a single server: do it like the tenant - if you don't like the landlords restrictions, go and rent another flat. but you can not cut the landlords rights at all.
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Wrong. AA is addictive, players will always play.
And if you dictate the right thing, they'll follow along, believe me.
i dont believe that, sorry.
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there is a fact you can not ignore (and i try to give an example - i hope you will understand it because my english isn't that good):
example 1: a car seller like ford with its new mustangs are telling the consumer after they did buy one of it, that they do have to take all hichhikers with them when one is standing there.
example 2: your landlord are telling you - after you did sign the contract for the rent - that you can not take black ladies with you at your flat, nor a boy at all.
so this is the fact that you can not change something like you wish - just because you think it has to. the one who did buy a mustang will bring it back as soon as possible and the landlord would have an empty flat.
what i would like to say is that i agree that some rules are necessary - everywhere. but to much of them will bring the contrary allways. and i do repeat myself: if you really cut back the admin rights of the server owners, it would bring more troubles then positive effects. there i am sure.
and from an other point of view: as the landlord i can make rules as i like. when one is signing my contract and he is willing to follow it, i can say you should not take boys or black ladies at your flat. so can server owners do what they like to do because YOU decided to join their servers with its good or its bad things. and because he is responsible for whatever he is standing for, he can do what he likes to do.
this is the reality all over the world - and its good like it is, because YOU have to adapt the practise of it when you are a guest somewhere, not the hosts.
Server admins are part of a community that needs organization and rules.
Many countries pay millions to apply to host the olympic games for example,
but once they are nominated, they have to organize the games according to
strict IOC rules or they get penalized.
The same applies here.
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yes, you are right.
and the rules for aa2 are not done by the IOC, they are done by the America's Army - and they are good, simple and enough at all.
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The game is dying merlin, stop your noobish freedom fight pls
and compromise if you really love this game.
Once it's afloat again, you will get your mighty powers again..
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i dont care about my "power". i can play on almost every server, i dont have problems with other server owners.
but i do care about restrictions at all. hope you understand that.
and as you can see i do not fight anymore, i just do say my point of view. as often as necessary.
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but when a player get banned from more than 2-3 servers from different owners, there must be a understandable reason. then i would not search for a restriction of admin power, then i would search by myself, right? :)
In most cases I agree with you, I only disagree with banning people because they appear to be hacking, but when some people are just a pain because of their inability to be social, then they should look at themselves only.
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In most cases I agree with you, I only disagree with banning people because they appear to be hacking, but when some people are just a pain because of their inability to be social, then they should look at themselves only.
Or them banning people for bugs in the game, or muting players pretty much little kids with a bit a power goes to there little brain
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In most cases I agree with you, I only disagree with banning people because they appear to be hacking, but when some people are just a pain because of their inability to be social, then they should look at themselves only.
true
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Or them banning people for bugs in the game
Please.
You don't get banned because bugs exist, but because you exploit them (in your case it's the roof/escbld bug in hosp).
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Please.
You don't get banned because bugs exist, but because you exploit them (in your case it's the roof/escbld bug in hosp).
I've yet to see one person who knows how to replicate this bug.
I believe it's just a bug with the game. It's not specific to Hospital. I've seen players appear (i.e be invisibe before this) on rooftops on other maps as well.
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I've yet to see one person who knows how to replicate this bug.
I believe it's just a bug with the game. It's not specific to Hospital. I've seen players appear (i.e be invisibe before this) on rooftops on other maps as well.
You are indeed correct. The "bug" usually occurs when the player is prone in front of a small ledge. The reason being is that in AA you essentially shoot from the very top of your head. There is a very small window where the player can still see over the small ledge while the other player cannot see him at all. This can be replicated in multiple other maps besides Hospital, Urban Assault is also a fairly known one.
It's technically not a bug at all, just how the game works. A flaw in game design is a better term for it.
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I've yet to see one person who knows how to replicate this bug.
By "replicate" you mean "use it"? If yes, you must be kidding me. There are a few smartasses who exploit it on a daily basis. E.g. Wickid is one of them.
I've watched them many times with ESP on, so I know what I'm talking about.
BTW, the best thing is when you hit them at the exploit point, they instantly start raging, because _they_ _knew_ they were invisible, so how someone dared to hit them. Hehe.
I believe it's just a bug with the game. It's not specific to Hospital. I've seen players appear (i.e be invisibe before this) on rooftops on other maps as well.
Of course it's a game bug, that's what are we talking about. And you are right, it's not specific to hospital. It's not even specific to roofs. It occurs at corners (west wing entry in hosp is one example). Not all corners, I don't know the exact condition (maybe mappers like Spanky/Eliz/... can tell what is specific at those points).
You are indeed correct. The "bug" usually occurs when the player is prone in front of a small ledge. The reason being is that in AA you essentially shoot from the very top of your head. There is a very small window where the player can still see over the small ledge while the other player cannot see him at all. This can be replicated in multiple other maps besides Hospital, Urban Assault is also a fairly known one.
As I wrote, I believe it's not about ledges but corners. At WW roof it seems to happen not because of the ledge, but because of the vent box.
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Solution to problem: boycott the map hospital, or forceclass away all SF maps to normal M16 and let the new players get the feel of the game, and not get shot by 12 people on the opposing team 203 spamming or sitting crouched/prone zooming on 1 spot for 6 minutes. Hospital has always been a popular map, and is the main reason people don't play other maps, hence letting the new players, if there even are any at this point. Play more fucking maps.
Flame me.
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Solution to problem: boycott the map hospital, or forceclass away all SF maps to normal M16 and let the new players get the feel of the game, and not get shot by 12 people on the opposing team 203 spamming or sitting crouched/prone zooming on 1 spot for 6 minutes. Hospital has always been a popular map, and is the main reason people don't play other maps, hence letting the new players, if there even are any at this point. Play more fucking maps.
Flame me.
Changing the weapon class is an idea I support. Not only for Hospital. If all maps would get another look at the weapon classes, I think there's a lot to gain there, as I mentioned before.
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Solution to problem: boycott the map hospital, or forceclass away all SF maps to normal M16 and let the new players get the feel of the game, and not get shot by 12 people on the opposing team 203 spamming or sitting crouched/prone zooming on 1 spot for 6 minutes. Hospital has always been a popular map, and is the main reason people don't play other maps, hence letting the new players, if there even are any at this point. Play more fucking maps.
Flame me.
I tend to think beginners prefer to play with SF, seems pretty logical to me. It is a fact M16 require more "skills", that's why there is more chance beginners will get raped on a long/short distance fight with M16 because they can't really see the enemy or because they don't really know how to aim with it. Give them an SF and they got a big scope with even a grenade launcher, wauw.
Changing weapons won't attract players imo, but it could be fun indeed
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I tend to think beginners prefer to play with SF, seems pretty logical to me. It is a fact M16 require more "skills", that's why there is more chance beginners will get raped on a long/short distance fight with M16 because they can't really see the enemy or because they don't really know how to aim with it. Give them an SF and they got a big scope with even a grenade launcher, wauw.
Changing weapons won't attract players imo, but it could be fun indeed
Goes both ways, a beginner which has no understanding on how the game works has a better chance against someone using a m16, which is harder to aim with than they would being put up against an experienced player with an SF gun, which takes 0 skill to handle.
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As I wrote, I believe it's not about ledges but corners. At WW roof it seems to happen not because of the ledge, but because of the vent box.
I don't know. Like I said the same thing happens in other maps without the presence of something like that.
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I don't know. Like I said the same thing happens in other maps without the presence of something like that.
Well... whatever the issue is, the original point was, that such bugs are intentionally exploited by some literally for _years_, and then they come to the forum with big innocent eyes, and say "it waznt me".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2g5Hz17C4is&feature=kp (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2g5Hz17C4is&feature=kp)