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Author Topic: Quickswap "bug"  (Read 7885 times)

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Offline Alex

Re: Quickswap "bug"
« Reply #45 on: Thursday, September 24, 2015, 19:45:58 PM »
I did say that your not altering the game or modifying game files. I thought that would be clear enough to distinguish between hacking and something like quickswap.

The "realism" argument isn't very good for getting rid of it either.

Nothing in that says realistic or implies that the game was created for realism. Just don't lose sight that this is a game for entertainment. Small things like quickswap make the game more engaging because it speeds up an already slow game without doing any real harm. You can die just as much using quickswap as you can without, but its the feeling of speed people are after.
I saw what you wrote about altering the game, but that doesn't make your opinion any more reasonable. What about pokes? Those were built in console commands to cheat. No external hack needed. I don't understand why altering game files makes any  difference. You're looking for an advantage either way.
 If all you have is "everyone has the possibility to do it" maybe you need to find some better reasons for keeping it.
I don't care about realism. Not everyone knows how to do it, it's just another thing that makes the game harder to get into for some players. If we can make the game even a little bit more level it's a win.
It is not supposed to be a part of the game. The devs removed it (at least the way to do it everyone uses on 2.5) from later versions for a reason. If people want a faster game (which quickswap is negligible anyways when it comes to speeding up the game) they can go play a faster game. There's no reason we should compromise what AA should be to satisfy a market the game was never meant for.
« Last Edit: Thursday, September 24, 2015, 20:03:01 PM by KiLLaMaN »

Offline aao25.com

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Re: Quickswap "bug"
« Reply #46 on: Thursday, September 24, 2015, 20:11:32 PM »
I saw what you wrote about altering the game, but that doesn't make your opinion any more reasonable. What about pokes? Those were built in console commands to cheat. No external hack needed. I don't understand why altering game files makes any  difference. You're looking for an advantage either way.
 If all you have is "everyone has the possibility to do it" maybe you need to find some better reasons for keeping it.
I don't care about realism. Not everyone knows how to do it, it's just another thing that makes the game harder to get into for some players. If we can make the game even a little bit more level it's a win.
It is not supposed to be a part of the game. The devs removed it (at least the way to do it everyone uses on 2.5) from later versions for a reason. If people want a faster game (which quickswap is negligible anyways when it comes to speeding up the game) they can go play a faster game. There's no reason we should compromise what AA should be to satisfy a market the game was never meant for.

Even though pokes are a command they edited game files that point is null.

There really is no advantage to quickswap imo based on games i have played. Yes you can change weapons faster, but if you play good players it doesn't matter; most of them are expecting it anyways.

The Dev's tried to remove it after 2.7 or 2.8 but you could still do it and people did.

If you can't fix things like smoke going through walls, then I don't think you should fix quickswap. I think they are very relatable in nature with the former providing more of an unfair advantage.

Offline Alex

Re: Quickswap "bug"
« Reply #47 on: Thursday, September 24, 2015, 20:20:08 PM »
Even though pokes are a command they edited game files that point is null.

There really is no advantage to quickswap imo based on games i have played. Yes you can change weapons faster, but if you play good players it doesn't matter; most of them are expecting it anyways.

The Dev's tried to remove it after 2.7 or 2.8 but you could still do it and people did.

If you can't fix things like smoke going through walls, then I don't think you should fix quickswap. I think they are very relatable in nature with the former providing more of an unfair advantage.
Like I said earlier, I don't see why editing game files to gain an advantage is any different than using an exploit to gain an advantage. The advantage is still gained.
Your smoke comparison is poor too. The problem is that the smoke going through walls is unfixable as far as I know. You'd have to change how the smoke interacts with BSP and I doubt that can be changed outside of the game source code. Quickswap might be fixable. Since some things aren't fixable we should give up on the things that could be? 
Also, if quickswap isn't an advantage like you said, why do people use it? It might not be a big advantage, but the advantage is there and denying it gets this conversation nowhere.

Offline aao25.com

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Re: Quickswap "bug"
« Reply #48 on: Thursday, September 24, 2015, 22:55:15 PM »
Like I said earlier, I don't see why editing game files to gain an advantage is any different than using an exploit to gain an advantage. The advantage is still gained.

The difference isn't between an advantage the difference is between a "cheat/hack" vs a "glitch/exploit".

Your smoke comparison is poor too. The problem is that the smoke going through walls is unfixable as far as I know. You'd have to change how the smoke interacts with BSP and I doubt that can be changed outside of the game source code. Quick swap might be fixable. Since some things aren't fixable we should give up on the things that could be? 

The smoke isn't a poor reason. I understand that you can't fix it, but the point I'm making players are knowingly using it to gain an advantage, one that is more useful than being able to quick swap. Why shouldn't you also punish these players? 

Also, if quickswap isn't an advantage like you said, why do people use it? It might not be a big advantage, but the advantage is there and denying it gets this conversation nowhere.

I haven't denied that it gives an advantage. I'm just saying that most players know how quick swap works and accounts for it while playing. I can't tell you the last time someone killed me in game because they quick swapped.

What I think would be a bit better would be to take a vote, quick swapping has been around long enough thats its ingrained into many players, and is a welcome change (acceptable glitch) to the game by many players. I believe it actually enhances CQC battles, it makes them more engaging and dynamic. It would be interesting to see if other players feel the same way.

Offline Alex

Re: Quickswap "bug"
« Reply #49 on: Friday, September 25, 2015, 00:21:56 AM »
The difference isn't between an advantage the difference is between a "cheat/hack" vs a "glitch/exploit".
And that difference doesn't matter at all when talking about gaining an unfair advantage.

The smoke isn't a poor reason. I understand that you can't fix it, but the point I'm making players are knowingly using it to gain an advantage, one that is more useful than being able to quick swap. Why shouldn't you also punish these players? 
How are we going to punish them? It's impossible to do effectively and you know it. You're arguing just for the sake of arguing here. I'll also reiterate that why does one thing not being punished for mean another thing shouldn't be? Smoke grenades through walls and quickswap are 2 completely separate issues and should be treated as such. This thread is about quickswap, focus on that.

I haven't denied that it gives an advantage. I'm just saying that most players know how quick swap works and accounts for it while playing. I can't tell you the last time someone killed me in game because they quick swapped.
Again, this isn't really a reason to not get rid of it. " A lot of people know how to use it" is a poor argument.

I believe it actually enhances CQC battles, it makes them more engaging and dynamic. It would be interesting to see if other players feel the same way.
At least here you come up with some sort of argument to keep it around. I disagree with the notion that is enhanced cqc though. If anything I think it takes some of the planning out of an encounter and makes it rely more on switching weapons on the fly, which isn't really the point of AA. I guess it all depends on what you want the style of play to be.
I think it's ridiculous to suggest keeping in an exploit because people like to use it.

Offline ~=W!CK!D=~

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Re: Quickswap "bug"
« Reply #50 on: Friday, September 25, 2015, 00:26:16 AM »
Lol killa nothing can be done you clearly stated that

No need to keep this open any longer then it has

Yes there are alot that disagree but o well we have to deal with it

Offline Alex

Re: Quickswap "bug"
« Reply #51 on: Friday, September 25, 2015, 01:30:03 AM »
Lol killa nothing can be done you clearly stated that
That is not what I said. I said we can't remove it from the source code. There may be another way to deal with it. I also stated that Eliz is looking into it.
« Last Edit: Friday, September 25, 2015, 01:32:10 AM by KiLLaMaN »

Offline NoBigDeal

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Re: Quickswap "bug"
« Reply #52 on: Friday, September 25, 2015, 03:23:42 AM »
Hmm ... Nice discussion we have here and even though it will not change my mind about this bug, I like to know what people think.

Maybe we should do - for fans of this bug - special modification which will speed up animations for the 'weapon change' two or three times ... In this way, it will be a real QuickSwap ala Arena games, and most importantly, will be available / an equal chance for all.
What if you could change the world by changing your perspective of it?
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Offline ronski

Re: Quickswap "bug"
« Reply #53 on: Friday, September 25, 2015, 04:28:56 AM »
Hmm ... Nice discussion we have here and even though it will not change my mind about this bug, I like to know what people think.

Maybe we should do - for fans of this bug - special modification which will speed up animations for the 'weapon change' two or three times ... In this way, it will be a real QuickSwap ala Arena games, and most importantly, will be available / an equal chance for all.
That's actually interesting point of view  :up:

Offline aao25.com

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Re: Quickswap "bug"
« Reply #54 on: Friday, September 25, 2015, 10:30:27 AM »
Quote
And that difference doesn't matter at all when talking about gaining an unfair advantage.

If you feel this way, ban kids that have sound cards, that is unfair to people that don't. I know thats tongue and cheek but based on how you perceive this matter sounds cards _would_ fall into the unfair category. 

Quote
How are we going to punish them? It's impossible to do effectively and you know it. You're arguing just for the sake of arguing here. I'll also reiterate that why does one thing not being punished for mean another thing shouldn't be? Smoke grenades through walls and quickswap are 2 completely separate issues and should be treated as such. This thread is about quickswap, focus on that.

What I'm saying is one is worse than the other. Yet the item of discussion is a bug that doesn't do much compared to the other.

Quote
Again, this isn't really a reason to not get rid of it. " A lot of people know how to use it" is a poor argument.

Not really, things like this have been accepted across many games on many platforms. One that I know relates the closest is COD4 for PC. In the comp scene players used a key bind that canceled animation time so if you were swapping weapons you could stop and your gun would be up. Soon this key bind was widely used across the game and accepted. In CS players boosting players over/on top of objects, it isn't directly how the game is supposed to be played. Yet people figured out how to do it, and it is widely used and accepted.

Killa, you and I are just one person in a community of many. I think your "iron fist" mentality is wrong in this case and still believe this is an acceptable glitch in which the community should vote on.

Offline NoBigDeal

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Re: Quickswap "bug"
« Reply #55 on: Friday, September 25, 2015, 16:01:53 PM »
AAO was never a simulation but the Vanilla game neither - there is many different reasons why this game was made, its purpose, why as the primary sponsor was US Army etc. But today it doesn't matter, just lets keep its primary concept and this some kind of simulation on the right level - stay between simulation and vanilla games.

Like I've said before:
...
in RL in such situations you will drop whatever you have in your hands.
...and this is the point which you can not 'jump over'.
« Last Edit: Friday, September 25, 2015, 18:39:16 PM by NoBigDeal »
What if you could change the world by changing your perspective of it?
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Offline Pipez0r

Re: Quickswap "bug"
« Reply #56 on: Saturday, September 26, 2015, 03:48:21 AM »
Well, even though it was mentioned and also said its off the topic, I want to say that the smoke going through walls is also used to gain  advantage - for example in Pipeline, smoking the wall outside of main in purpose to smoke the corridor, or smoking main pump room through other walls.. and many who complain about quick swap, probably are using the smoke glitch intentionally.

Personally I think its also the part of the game and I consider it tactics. Like quickswap.

Someone asked from my previous post that realism of quickswap. Of course it is not realistic. But aa shouldnt be entirely realistic, but also fun. I was talking about nades, how unrealistic and not fun they are nowadays, old aa was better in that, and how some  nubs complained about too powerful nades how they are in their opinion unrealistic, and through much of their complaining, they got what they wanted: nades that kill if they are just couple of inches away from you. Thats what I call unrealistic.

And I hope that with some less realistic parts of the game, like quickswap doesnt happen what happened with those nades, that a good old part of the game is changed causing less activity with many players.

Offline teddy_grizzly_bear

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Re: Quickswap "bug"
« Reply #57 on: Saturday, September 26, 2015, 04:31:27 AM »
Like was said earlier, the difference between the smoke bug and quickswap is that something might realisticly be possible to be done about quickswap. The smoke bug is - in our situation - virtually unfixable.
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Online Bart!

Re: Quickswap "bug"
« Reply #58 on: Saturday, September 26, 2015, 13:58:36 PM »
Well, even though it was mentioned and also said its off the topic, I want to say that the smoke going through walls is also used to gain  advantage - for example in Pipeline, smoking the wall outside of main in purpose to smoke the corridor, or smoking main pump room through other walls.. and many who complain about quick swap, probably are using the smoke glitch intentionally.

Personally I think its also the part of the game and I consider it tactics. Like quickswap.

Someone asked from my previous post that realism of quickswap. Of course it is not realistic. But aa shouldnt be entirely realistic, but also fun. I was talking about nades, how unrealistic and not fun they are nowadays, old aa was better in that, and how some  nubs complained about too powerful nades how they are in their opinion unrealistic, and through much of their complaining, they got what they wanted: nades that kill if they are just couple of inches away from you. Thats what I call unrealistic.

And I hope that with some less realistic parts of the game, like quickswap doesnt happen what happened with those nades, that a good old part of the game is changed causing less activity with many players.
I do know in leagues this was forbidden to do so, and I think it's a task of server admins to administer this.

Offline SupR3me-

Re: Quickswap "bug"
« Reply #59 on: Saturday, September 26, 2015, 20:16:03 PM »
lol why is this topic not closed yet

tell every1 how to do it and its a fair game ?

gg
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I have played with him a lot, I will uninstall the game if he cheats, you'll have my word. SupR3me don't get this as a challenge now :D
To clear this out: Supreme has been reported several times, and he has not been found guilty of using cheats/tricks/advantages in-game. Lets not get through easy hackusations.

 

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