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Second chance for the hackers/cheaters

Yes
1618 (63.2%)
Yes (Hacker Tag)
325 (12.7%)
No (Permanent ban)
619 (24.2%)

Total Members Voted: 61

Voting closed: Thursday, November 21, 2013, 21:41:34 PM

Author Topic: [Poll] Banning Policy...  (Read 32223 times)

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Offline NoBigDeal

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Re: [Poll] Banning Policy...
« Reply #120 on: Sunday, November 10, 2013, 07:50:45 AM »
I'm pretty sure you agree to it when installing and pressing "I accept". If you don't like Assist taking screenshots of the dirty/suspicious players, don't install it.
Don't worry, I don't have installed...  :poorguy:

Anyways, Assist 'license' is not valid under the law - and thus, this button might as well not be there.
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Offline WORLDCHANCELLOR

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Re: [Poll] Banning Policy...
« Reply #121 on: Sunday, November 10, 2013, 19:35:43 PM »
Don't worry, I don't have installed...  :poorguy:

Anyways, Assist 'license' is not valid under the law - and thus, this button might as well not be there.

Why do you believe it's not valid? If you want to play, you have to accept these rules. It's pretty simple. The purpose of the screenshots is to ensure that users of Assist are playing fairly, as all other people on Assist are legit and expecting others to be the same.

You mean to tell me that you believe it's OK for players to be able to load up hacks that modify assist and dismantle the leveled playing field? And we should clarify this notion that it's only for suspicious/dirty players. Rather, Assist can take screenshots of ALL players. If you install software that informs you that it will do this, it's up to you to decide whether you are OK with admins seeing you play the game, to ensure that you're playing fairly.

In this regard, essentially, Assist works just like any AC Client we've seen in the past. When we used AC Clients in competitions, it was connected to AA's files and loaded up AA, just like Assist does. Some of these clients were not only able to take screenshots, but were also keylogging players while on the client, a la CEVO's CMN3, and players agreed to this prior to engaging in matches while running the client/s. There were no 'legal' issues then, so why would there be legal issues now?

If you're coming from the angle about AA, itself, being copyrighted, modified by Assist, etc, then I guess I'll say that, as an American tax payer -- who, along with other American taxpayers, contributed to the development of this free game -- I'm OK with Assist keeping the game alive. I'm glad my tax dollars didn't go to complete waste and that I'm still able to play. More importantly, though, is how that angle has nothing to do with the "I Agree" button being illegal. Consider Teamviewer (http://www.teamviewer.com). With Teamviewer, two (or even more) people can consent to accessing the others' computers in many disparate fashions, even to the point of full control. If a person maliciously, and without consent, accessed a person's computer with Teamviewer, this person is breaking the law. Teamviewer, however, is not illegal. The same would apply in the case of Assist and its prerequisite agreement conditions.

Offline Spanky

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Re: [Poll] Banning Policy...
« Reply #122 on: Sunday, November 10, 2013, 19:39:05 PM »
Anyways, Assist 'license' is not valid under the law - and thus, this button might as well not be there.
Many EULA/TOS documents don't hold up in court. That's not the point of ours though. The point is to spell out what Assist is, what it does, what we do with it and how you can/can't use it. Simple as that. We're not using it to hide behind.
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Offline Mixk

Re: [Poll] Banning Policy...
« Reply #123 on: Monday, November 11, 2013, 09:45:36 AM »
Many EULA/TOS documents don't hold up in court. That's not the point of ours though. The point is to spell out what Assist is, what it does, what we do with it and how you can/can't use it. Simple as that. We're not using it to hide behind.
Thats so true. No one is holding a gun to your head. You want to play the game they are working to keep alive you accept it and play or don't and you won't.
I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.

Offline ArmyAntiCheat

Re: [Poll] Banning Policy...
« Reply #124 on: Monday, November 11, 2013, 12:45:22 PM »
How long can we talk about this? I think the answer is clear.

There are two buttons before you start installing assist. One is you ''ACCEPT'' with terms of conditions of Assist to take a screenshots from your desktop and there is ''DECLINE'' button which tells you, you don't accept with term of conditions via Assist.
The decision is clear, you play the game or you don't.

(I don't find anymore criteria for this ''Terms of Conditions'' law to play Assist. Whatever you say the decision is already made to stick with the current sample. Anyways it was a great try to convince admins to change it and to warn people but it didn't work as it seems, people do trust admins and their work and they don't hide anything which is great. Topic can be closed to prevent any further spam, but one thing I've to tell you, when polls are up, the MAJORITY of users must vote before the final decision is made.)

Offline Mixk

Re: [Poll] Banning Policy...
« Reply #125 on: Monday, November 11, 2013, 13:51:24 PM »
Topic can be closed to prevent any further spam, but one thing I've to tell you, when polls are up, the MAJORITY of users must vote before the final decision is made.)
That would be all fine and dandy, but short of holding a gun to them and forcing them to come to the forums, most players won't come here unless they have a complaint. As I said before those of us who give a damn about this game come to the forums.
I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.

Offline NoBigDeal

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Re: [Poll] Banning Policy...
« Reply #126 on: Monday, November 11, 2013, 15:04:01 PM »
... With Teamviewer, two (or even more) people can consent to accessing the others' computers in many disparate fashions, even to the point of full control. If a person maliciously, and without consent, accessed a person's computer with Teamviewer, this person is breaking the law. Teamviewer, however, is not illegal. The same would apply in the case of Assist and its prerequisite agreement conditions.
So, you say: gun is safe, only people who carry it are dangerous..? ...nonsense...

... Anyways it was a great try to convince admins to change it and to warn people but it didn't work as it seems...
I wasn't trying anything... It was the only answer to the stupid excuses. ... which don't change the fact, that the Assist is not a corporation and don't have legal rights - it's just a funs made app. Conclusions, pull yourself...

... but one thing I've to tell you, when polls are up, the MAJORITY of users must vote before the final decision is made.)
I'm all for it, but I don't think that you understand what that really mean. Currently, there are about 4479 members. majority means 66%, which gives us +2956 votes - second nonsense...
Stay with 66% of votes.


Apropos of closing this thread, I wrote a post a week ago, in which, among other things I asked about this the admins, but instead, they removed my post. Sill I want to know why..?

Anyways, now I like to keep this thread open until closing of poll, because it is getting more and more interesting.
« Last Edit: Monday, November 11, 2013, 15:09:33 PM by NoBigDeal »
What if you could change the world by changing your perspective of it?
Would you?

Offline ArmyAntiCheat

Re: [Poll] Banning Policy...
« Reply #127 on: Monday, November 11, 2013, 15:05:15 PM »
I understand you and I don't want that to happen too, but let's face it another way.

The best thing what admins could do is insert the poll into the ''Assist''. You know, some people may have trouble registering onto forum, may have other problems which way they can't contact from the higher grounds to help them. Maybe they don't understand the importance of their voting.

What would happen if we ''forced'' them to vote?
1. They would make their own decision and opinion on voting.
2. They would decide on the future of the poll, of its importance to the next update and so on.
3. If the poll was in assist. they wouldn't need to register on forum, they can use a BT account as long as they are logged in.

People just don't know how important is their decision. Do you guys know what happens when they don't know about anything? They just throw complains about the next update, why its that and whats that all about. If they are not forced then you put stones on your heads with full of reports about the updates and so on. Look at the current voting about AA3 map mission types..., what happens when majority doesn't vote? again full of complains because another half didn't vote and didn't throw their opinion out. They play the game and the game should be played for them and with their thoughts. Its just my opinion, I don't say to force them register on the forum, just do the voting because they play the game and are they going to be happy with the next polls decision?

And another thing, why admins don't just do the same with forum users like in the game? Admins could ban and delete users that are registered and banned as well as have more than one account. People who have more accounts on this forum  must be deleted, keep only one and we see how many of the registered users left registered.

Offline NoBigDeal

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Re: [Poll] Banning Policy...
« Reply #128 on: Monday, November 11, 2013, 15:21:00 PM »
Exactly, some time ago I was proposed the same. In my deleted by admins post I was talking about empty accounts, but guess what..? There is many things, which need to be changed, but nobody care...
What if you could change the world by changing your perspective of it?
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Offline ArmyAntiCheat

Re: [Poll] Banning Policy...
« Reply #129 on: Monday, November 11, 2013, 15:25:57 PM »
Exactly, some time ago I was proposed the same. In my deleted by admins post I was talking about empty accounts, but guess what..? There is many things, which need to be changed, but nobody care...

In which they see no point in doing it, as thinking it won't change anything and is a waste of time when I see this as a main purpose of struggling with the MAJORITY voting.

But you see we are only two and the rest just doesn't care...they see only one option to hunt and to finish the player that has cheated and the sad thing is that nobody is willing to give a second chance which proves to ''in what world we live in?'' ask yourself a question people. I would just offer for a fee of 20$ or more for a second chance, people would pay just to play the game, this way they would pay to assist rather to the cheat app. $20 is just an example, of course the price would be up for admins decision. You want donations? There you go, a good way to get them.

P.S Not here to defend any hackers but if you were in their shoes you would want a second chance.
« Last Edit: Monday, November 11, 2013, 15:45:46 PM by ArmyAntiCheat »

Offline Spanky

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Re: [Poll] Banning Policy...
« Reply #130 on: Monday, November 11, 2013, 15:57:42 PM »
Currently, there are about 4479 members.

Again, a lot of those are accounts that are old (we should purge them) so you won't get anywhere near that many people on here. Look at the player charts, we have less than 1000 unique account logins a day (some people have multiple accounts). Being realistic, 66% would probably be somewhere around 500. But then you gotta remember that not everybody knows about this site and there are plenty of people that don't speak english and would have a hard time understanding what's going on here.

I do agree though that the amount of votes here is pathetic but what can we do short of adding voting to Assist (which we are talking about)? This site has been around way too long and spammed on way too many forums to still have people that don't know about it. That's how it is though. Think about all the games you play, do you go to the developer forums every day to keep up on what's going on? Most people don't.
It's like shaving your pubes to make your junk look bigger.
Might look bigger, but it aint.....

Offline ArmyAntiCheat

Re: [Poll] Banning Policy...
« Reply #131 on: Monday, November 11, 2013, 16:03:44 PM »
Again, a lot of those are accounts that are old (we should purge them) so you won't get anywhere near that many people on here. Look at the player charts, we have less than 1000 unique account logins a day (some people have multiple accounts). Being realistic, 66% would probably be somewhere around 500. But then you gotta remember that not everybody knows about this site and there are plenty of people that don't speak english and would have a hard time understanding what's going on here.

I do agree though that the amount of votes here is pathetic but what can we do short of adding voting to Assist (which we are talking about)? This site has been around way too long and spammed on way too many forums to still have people that don't know about it. That's how it is though. Think about all the games you play, do you go to the developer forums every day to keep up on what's going on? Most people don't.

So poll in assist would be not worthy? You can do polls in couple languages or as with many as you like in assist using someone to translate or just using google translator..., I don't understand how is it hard to implement voting on assist? I think they would see it, the people who log in, if the box would appear with the voting system they would be quickly forced to vote and give their opinion. I think this is the best solution of voting is through assist not the website. And it is not enough to say come for more updates www.aao25.com etc, they can't be bothered opening internet and writing that stuff down, registering and so on.

Offline Choogelaar

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Re: [Poll] Banning Policy...
« Reply #132 on: Monday, November 11, 2013, 16:17:04 PM »
everyone downloads the same game ,and anyone that is putting stuff in the .ini folder that doesn't belong in there ,is trying to find a loophole to cheat running a bought hack/cheat for any amount at all you really think these people care if they have to spend another $20 bux to play the game ? as far as i understand what your saying here is you basicly invite cheaters / hackers back in a game for a small fee ?just to help out? if im not mistaken Sergio made a post a while back about how to or what to change in the settings ,that is for everyone,but that aint inserting  cheats or hacks in the game cause that is just adjusting sertend settings without putting extra stuff in the game itself ,i might not of written everything correctly but i dont see any reason to give or let a cheater keep playing or playing the game again by paying a fee
In which they see no point in doing it, as thinking it won't change anything and is a waste of time when I see this as a main purpose of struggling with the MAJORITY voting.

But you see we are only two and the rest just doesn't care...they see only one option to hunt and to finish the player that has cheated and the sad thing is that nobody is willing to give a second chance which proves to ''in what world we live in?'' ask yourself a question people. I would just offer for a fee of 20$ or more for a second chance, people would pay just to play the game, this way they would pay to assist rather to the cheat app. $20 is just an example, of course the price would be up for admins decision. You want donations? There you go, a good way to get them.

P.S Not here to defend any hackers but if you were in their shoes you would want a second chance.

Offline Spanky

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Re: [Poll] Banning Policy...
« Reply #133 on: Monday, November 11, 2013, 16:43:56 PM »
So poll in assist would be not worthy? You can do polls in couple languages or as with many as you like in assist using someone to translate or just using google translator..., I don't understand how is it hard to implement voting on assist? I think they would see it, the people who log in, if the box would appear with the voting system they would be quickly forced to vote and give their opinion. I think this is the best solution of voting is through assist not the website. And it is not enough to say come for more updates www.aao25.com etc, they can't be bothered opening internet and writing that stuff down, registering and so on.

One problem I have yet to solve is how to prevent abuse and keep the votes in 1 location. If we start a poll here, Assist would have to pass the vote to AAO25. Those more devious than I could likely find ways to abuse my code as I'm not a master of PHP. Another problem is that ELiZ mentioned it's easy to render a webpage in Assist but interacting with it is another story. A vote could be submitted via $_[GET] but again, this leaves potential for abuse. We would have to find some way of passing the BTID to make votes unique. The logistics of voting in Assist will prove to be a hassle. Not that it can't be done, it's just a matter of doing it properly.

An easy solution might be to just omit AAO25 from polls and people vote in Assist and the votes stay on the auth server. It would be nice to have interaction with AAO25 though.
It's like shaving your pubes to make your junk look bigger.
Might look bigger, but it aint.....

Offline ArmyAntiCheat

Re: [Poll] Banning Policy...
« Reply #134 on: Monday, November 11, 2013, 16:45:15 PM »
you really think these people care if they have to spend another $20 bux to play the game ? as far as i understand what your saying here is you basicly invite cheaters / hackers back in a game for a small fee ?

It was an example, I didn't offered $20, of course more. I guess you didn't pay attention to my post at all.

 

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