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Second chance for the hackers/cheaters

Yes
1618 (63.2%)
Yes (Hacker Tag)
325 (12.7%)
No (Permanent ban)
619 (24.2%)

Total Members Voted: 60

Voting closed: Thursday, November 21, 2013, 21:41:34 PM

Author Topic: [Poll] Banning Policy...  (Read 53495 times)

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Offline WORLDCHANCELLOR

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Re: [Poll] Banning Policy...
« Reply #105 on: Saturday, November 09, 2013, 19:29:41 PM »
Who would look at this? I guess it takes a lot of free time. And it means , watching everybody's screenshots, so it's private, so not anyon could go for the job. And when assist implemented the SS system one of thhe arguments was 'they will only take ss if you're fishy'. That calmed down some players, but now it won't be the case anymore.

Don't take me wrong, it would be nice initiative, but good luck finding one of the admins to use his free time to do that

Well, they don't have to actively monitor it. For example, if someone, anyone, suspects that someone is able to see them through the wall, they can simply go and check their screenshots on their own. Believe it or not; people will be inclined to check screenshots much more than you may think. And the ability to take manual screenshots IS a good thing, and it should be a calming thing, as manual screenshots are not algorithmic and predictably recursive.

Offline Bart!

Re: [Poll] Banning Policy...
« Reply #106 on: Sunday, November 10, 2013, 05:06:04 AM »
I think you have a good point there noofy, also you summarized the anti cheat systems well. I think this is a valid point for a good anti-cheat system.

Offline Ganja

Re: [Poll] Banning Policy...
« Reply #107 on: Sunday, November 10, 2013, 05:33:10 AM »
Well, they don't have to actively monitor it. For example, if someone, anyone, suspects that someone is able to see them through the wall, they can simply go and check their screenshots on their own. Believe it or not; people will be inclined to check screenshots much more than you may think. And the ability to take manual screenshots IS a good thing, and it should be a calming thing, as manual screenshots are not algorithmic and predictably recursive.

I was not talking bout 'people' in general, because those SS are private (not in game only). So I guess it's gonna be admin work to check those. And now they already have the possibility to do check on users, but they don't do it (no offence, just mentionning the fact that you admins are not 100% into the AC and that you have other stuff to do)

But if you can find someone, that you can trust, an that can check the SS, would be nice !

Offline NoBigDeal

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Re: [Poll] Banning Policy...
« Reply #108 on: Sunday, November 10, 2013, 07:30:23 AM »
... those SS are private (not in game only) ...
It's called espionage and is illegal...

Spanky@ once again - where is my post!!?
« Last Edit: Sunday, November 10, 2013, 07:32:11 AM by NoBigDeal »
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Offline teddy_grizzly_bear

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Re: [Poll] Banning Policy...
« Reply #109 on: Sunday, November 10, 2013, 07:32:50 AM »
I'm pretty sure you agree to it when installing and pressing "I accept". If you don't like Assist taking screenshots of the dirty/suspicious players, don't install it.
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Offline NoBigDeal

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Re: [Poll] Banning Policy...
« Reply #110 on: Sunday, November 10, 2013, 07:50:45 AM »
I'm pretty sure you agree to it when installing and pressing "I accept". If you don't like Assist taking screenshots of the dirty/suspicious players, don't install it.
Don't worry, I don't have installed...  :poorguy:

Anyways, Assist 'license' is not valid under the law - and thus, this button might as well not be there.
What if you could change the world by changing your perspective of it?
Would you?

Offline WORLDCHANCELLOR

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Re: [Poll] Banning Policy...
« Reply #111 on: Sunday, November 10, 2013, 19:35:43 PM »
Don't worry, I don't have installed...  :poorguy:

Anyways, Assist 'license' is not valid under the law - and thus, this button might as well not be there.

Why do you believe it's not valid? If you want to play, you have to accept these rules. It's pretty simple. The purpose of the screenshots is to ensure that users of Assist are playing fairly, as all other people on Assist are legit and expecting others to be the same.

You mean to tell me that you believe it's OK for players to be able to load up hacks that modify assist and dismantle the leveled playing field? And we should clarify this notion that it's only for suspicious/dirty players. Rather, Assist can take screenshots of ALL players. If you install software that informs you that it will do this, it's up to you to decide whether you are OK with admins seeing you play the game, to ensure that you're playing fairly.

In this regard, essentially, Assist works just like any AC Client we've seen in the past. When we used AC Clients in competitions, it was connected to AA's files and loaded up AA, just like Assist does. Some of these clients were not only able to take screenshots, but were also keylogging players while on the client, a la CEVO's CMN3, and players agreed to this prior to engaging in matches while running the client/s. There were no 'legal' issues then, so why would there be legal issues now?

If you're coming from the angle about AA, itself, being copyrighted, modified by Assist, etc, then I guess I'll say that, as an American tax payer -- who, along with other American taxpayers, contributed to the development of this free game -- I'm OK with Assist keeping the game alive. I'm glad my tax dollars didn't go to complete waste and that I'm still able to play. More importantly, though, is how that angle has nothing to do with the "I Agree" button being illegal. Consider Teamviewer (http://www.teamviewer.com). With Teamviewer, two (or even more) people can consent to accessing the others' computers in many disparate fashions, even to the point of full control. If a person maliciously, and without consent, accessed a person's computer with Teamviewer, this person is breaking the law. Teamviewer, however, is not illegal. The same would apply in the case of Assist and its prerequisite agreement conditions.

Offline Spanky

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Re: [Poll] Banning Policy...
« Reply #112 on: Sunday, November 10, 2013, 19:39:05 PM »
Anyways, Assist 'license' is not valid under the law - and thus, this button might as well not be there.
Many EULA/TOS documents don't hold up in court. That's not the point of ours though. The point is to spell out what Assist is, what it does, what we do with it and how you can/can't use it. Simple as that. We're not using it to hide behind.
It's like shaving your pubes to make your junk look bigger.
Might look bigger, but it aint.....

Offline Mixk

Re: [Poll] Banning Policy...
« Reply #113 on: Monday, November 11, 2013, 09:45:36 AM »
Many EULA/TOS documents don't hold up in court. That's not the point of ours though. The point is to spell out what Assist is, what it does, what we do with it and how you can/can't use it. Simple as that. We're not using it to hide behind.
Thats so true. No one is holding a gun to your head. You want to play the game they are working to keep alive you accept it and play or don't and you won't.
I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.

Offline ArmyAntiCheat

Re: [Poll] Banning Policy...
« Reply #114 on: Monday, November 11, 2013, 12:45:22 PM »
How long can we talk about this? I think the answer is clear.

There are two buttons before you start installing assist. One is you ''ACCEPT'' with terms of conditions of Assist to take a screenshots from your desktop and there is ''DECLINE'' button which tells you, you don't accept with term of conditions via Assist.
The decision is clear, you play the game or you don't.

(I don't find anymore criteria for this ''Terms of Conditions'' law to play Assist. Whatever you say the decision is already made to stick with the current sample. Anyways it was a great try to convince admins to change it and to warn people but it didn't work as it seems, people do trust admins and their work and they don't hide anything which is great. Topic can be closed to prevent any further spam, but one thing I've to tell you, when polls are up, the MAJORITY of users must vote before the final decision is made.)

Offline Mixk

Re: [Poll] Banning Policy...
« Reply #115 on: Monday, November 11, 2013, 13:51:24 PM »
Topic can be closed to prevent any further spam, but one thing I've to tell you, when polls are up, the MAJORITY of users must vote before the final decision is made.)
That would be all fine and dandy, but short of holding a gun to them and forcing them to come to the forums, most players won't come here unless they have a complaint. As I said before those of us who give a damn about this game come to the forums.
I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.

Offline NoBigDeal

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Re: [Poll] Banning Policy...
« Reply #116 on: Monday, November 11, 2013, 15:04:01 PM »
... With Teamviewer, two (or even more) people can consent to accessing the others' computers in many disparate fashions, even to the point of full control. If a person maliciously, and without consent, accessed a person's computer with Teamviewer, this person is breaking the law. Teamviewer, however, is not illegal. The same would apply in the case of Assist and its prerequisite agreement conditions.
So, you say: gun is safe, only people who carry it are dangerous..? ...nonsense...

... Anyways it was a great try to convince admins to change it and to warn people but it didn't work as it seems...
I wasn't trying anything... It was the only answer to the stupid excuses. ... which don't change the fact, that the Assist is not a corporation and don't have legal rights - it's just a funs made app. Conclusions, pull yourself...

... but one thing I've to tell you, when polls are up, the MAJORITY of users must vote before the final decision is made.)
I'm all for it, but I don't think that you understand what that really mean. Currently, there are about 4479 members. majority means 66%, which gives us +2956 votes - second nonsense...
Stay with 66% of votes.


Apropos of closing this thread, I wrote a post a week ago, in which, among other things I asked about this the admins, but instead, they removed my post. Sill I want to know why..?

Anyways, now I like to keep this thread open until closing of poll, because it is getting more and more interesting.
« Last Edit: Monday, November 11, 2013, 15:09:33 PM by NoBigDeal »
What if you could change the world by changing your perspective of it?
Would you?

Offline ArmyAntiCheat

Re: [Poll] Banning Policy...
« Reply #117 on: Monday, November 11, 2013, 15:05:15 PM »
I understand you and I don't want that to happen too, but let's face it another way.

The best thing what admins could do is insert the poll into the ''Assist''. You know, some people may have trouble registering onto forum, may have other problems which way they can't contact from the higher grounds to help them. Maybe they don't understand the importance of their voting.

What would happen if we ''forced'' them to vote?
1. They would make their own decision and opinion on voting.
2. They would decide on the future of the poll, of its importance to the next update and so on.
3. If the poll was in assist. they wouldn't need to register on forum, they can use a BT account as long as they are logged in.

People just don't know how important is their decision. Do you guys know what happens when they don't know about anything? They just throw complains about the next update, why its that and whats that all about. If they are not forced then you put stones on your heads with full of reports about the updates and so on. Look at the current voting about AA3 map mission types..., what happens when majority doesn't vote? again full of complains because another half didn't vote and didn't throw their opinion out. They play the game and the game should be played for them and with their thoughts. Its just my opinion, I don't say to force them register on the forum, just do the voting because they play the game and are they going to be happy with the next polls decision?

And another thing, why admins don't just do the same with forum users like in the game? Admins could ban and delete users that are registered and banned as well as have more than one account. People who have more accounts on this forum  must be deleted, keep only one and we see how many of the registered users left registered.

Offline NoBigDeal

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Re: [Poll] Banning Policy...
« Reply #118 on: Monday, November 11, 2013, 15:21:00 PM »
Exactly, some time ago I was proposed the same. In my deleted by admins post I was talking about empty accounts, but guess what..? There is many things, which need to be changed, but nobody care...
What if you could change the world by changing your perspective of it?
Would you?

Offline ArmyAntiCheat

Re: [Poll] Banning Policy...
« Reply #119 on: Monday, November 11, 2013, 15:25:57 PM »
Exactly, some time ago I was proposed the same. In my deleted by admins post I was talking about empty accounts, but guess what..? There is many things, which need to be changed, but nobody care...

In which they see no point in doing it, as thinking it won't change anything and is a waste of time when I see this as a main purpose of struggling with the MAJORITY voting.

But you see we are only two and the rest just doesn't care...they see only one option to hunt and to finish the player that has cheated and the sad thing is that nobody is willing to give a second chance which proves to ''in what world we live in?'' ask yourself a question people. I would just offer for a fee of 20$ or more for a second chance, people would pay just to play the game, this way they would pay to assist rather to the cheat app. $20 is just an example, of course the price would be up for admins decision. You want donations? There you go, a good way to get them.

P.S Not here to defend any hackers but if you were in their shoes you would want a second chance.
« Last Edit: Monday, November 11, 2013, 15:45:46 PM by ArmyAntiCheat »

 

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