AAO25.com
Assist => Feedback & Suggestions => Topic started by: NoBigDeal on Sunday, October 20, 2013, 19:44:10 PM
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I think, that banning policy is too strict. Banning for certain amount of time plus decreasing points of experience will be more efficient. What you guys think..?
Edit - Poll:
Read the first five pages before the vote.
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No one really cares about honor anyway anymore, so that wouldnt be a deterrent imo. I havent played for a while so i dont really know of the recent bans etc. But generally if u do something wrong you should be punished. Never really been a fan of permanent bans, unless of course its a repeat offender.
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...generally if u do something wrong you should be punished. Never really been a fan of permanent bans, unless of course its a repeat offender.
Agree... Let see: i.e. for each type of hack (norecoil, noflash etc.) one month plus -5/-10 points.
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Agree... Let see: i.e. for each type of hack (norecoil, noflash etc.) one month plus -5/-10 points.
r u serious????
u cheat u get ban period
how stupid can players be to pay for a stupid ass cheat when they can help out here donate to keep this game alive, so much have been done to keep this game alive, only to get ruin by stupid ass kiddie cheats
i can't really understand why players feel the need to use a stupid cheat, really think about it what dam pleasure do u get really out of it??
ban policy here is great no need to change shit, u get caught ur gone for good, sounds good to me
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That's the insulting thing, that they PAY for the cheat yet we're all doing this for free. We're volunteering time to keep this alive and they pay to destroy it.
Doesn't make much sense.
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That's the insulting thing, that they PAY for the cheat yet we're all doing this for free. We're volunteering time to keep this alive and they pay to destroy it.
Doesn't make much sense.
exactly my point, they can be paying for all the hard work done here, no they insist on payn a stupid cheat giving some 1 else money
only 1 there cheating is there self
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That's the insulting thing, that they PAY for the cheat yet we're all doing this for free. We're volunteering time to keep this alive and they pay to destroy it.
Be serious, hacks are for free too...
Doesn't make much sense.
...maybe because you don't/can't/wan't see the bigger picture... From what I see, this game/community is dying - with every permanent ban = one player less. Even if 1/100 cheater will regret for what he's done (or his brother, sister etc. :D) and after his punishment he will play honorably, then is worth it to give him that chance. What is most important he will stay with community - more players to play with...
To be clear: it's not because of my personal interest, I don't play this game, never played and (most probably) never will... It's because I've seen a lot of collapse of small communities like this one.
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I can definitely agree and there have been players that show remorse. There's also been ones that show fake remorse and we re-ban them later.
Tough call IMO.
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Yes, it is... Always choosing between the lesser evil is difficult.
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Be serious, hacks are for free too...
...maybe because you don't/can't/wan't see the bigger picture... From what I see, this game/community is dying - with every permanent ban = one player less. Even if 1/100 cheater will regret for what he's done (or his brother, sister etc. :D) and after his punishment he will play honorably, then is worth it to give him that chance. What is most important he will stay with community - more players to play with...
Really? Seems to me this should be directed towards those who are knowingly and willingly installing the hacks and or cheats since they are the ones who are ultimately causing the death of any game, not just this game, when they know the consequences of their actions before they pay for or in other ways receive then use them and get caught. Why should those of us who don't indulge in cheating always be the ones who have to be sympathetic to those that do when it should be those who are considering cheating should be sympathetic towards the rest of the community and plain and simple don't do it.
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Spanky, you were a cheater yourself... Did that make sense to you back then?
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Spanky, you were a cheater yourself... Did that make sense to you back then?
Did what make sense? Permanent global banning? It made sense, yea. Back when I messed around, it was more server admins banning which if you got banned, there weren't many other servers to play on. Had it been a global ban that I received, I probably would have appealed it with honesty and true remorse because I really enjoyed the game then. Quite a bit of cheating/hacking was due to piss off some select people and some of it was just for myself. Course, I never paid for hacks and I never hacked on the current version so my perspective is a bit different than others.
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I believe hackers will always stay hackers. Been confirmed with =IGC=Aesthetic few days ago
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Funny thing is that they unban people using AHK or some shit like that, even if they do it more often. But they perma ban people doing shit like no recoil, get your shit right and perma ban EVERY hacker
that's my opinion
an example: mr. morti.jabba who's still using shiet
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True. The first AHK bans got 1 week ban. That's good as a warning to tell those idiots thats their cheats will be caught. But now the warning is over, why can they play again? Because we need players? Seriously? 165 players yesterday. It's not huge but it's increasing bit by bit and we don't need mongols to play the game so it survives.
I tried to find the quote where Jonny says: I'd rather see the game die, then played by cheaters. And that's what need to happen. We're not gonna give people 3d or 4 th chances just because they game would die without them.
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let these guys pay to get a second or even third chance. so they do something for the comm at least. the higher the crime, the higher the price...
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The rule is simple: prevention is very important thing. But if someone decide to do something blocked by the rules, and he do that, penalties must be hard.
In past one thing was good- public executions. It was hard penalty and excellent prevention.
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...Why should those of us who don't indulge in cheating always be the ones who have to be sympathetic...
...because this make us different..?
...The first AHK bans got 1 week ban...
One week is not enough, I think that:
First time - one month and half of experience.
Second - three month and whole experience.
Third - permanent ban.
...should be OK. Ban should include forum - less worries about all these questions 'WHY?' - just simple private message with conditions. Not sure about permanent ban (should include forum..?), probably this problem should be discussed separately.
...I tried to find the quote where Jonny says: I'd rather see the game die, then played by cheaters. And that's what need to happen...
...he was wrong - everyone deserve a second chance...
Here is about twenty active people (not long ago was twenty one...) and each year will be less... People grow up, settle down, raise own family - less time for yourself and stuff like gaming - this is a normal way of things. They should be more open to people from outside, more tolerant - in order, to leave behind someone, who will continue their hard work.
This community needs to consider this option, once again - if not, I'll give you guys max. five years until final shut down.
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There are alot of players playing here on ban accounts from 2.85, and assist are giving them second chances which I disagree with, ban accounts should stay ban, start a fresh account if u wanna give second chances
There is no room here is for cheaters, cheaters will only ruin the game for the honest players, far as the ahk program I believe any player that uses it knows exactly what there getting into and deserves what they get
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I think, that banning policy is too strict. Banning for certain amount of time plus decreasing points of experience will be more efficient. What you guys think..?
I think you should be banned for wanting hackers to be allowed back.
If anything they should be allowed back if they show remorse. BUT only on a new account. Their punishment is loss of their tracker and honor. Lose everything they worked for. As well at very minimum a month timeout. AND pertinently on a shame list and watched. Much like a criminal record. - or steroid abusers in sports
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I think you should be banned for wanting hackers to be allowed back.
If anything they should be allowed back if they show remorse. BUT only on a new account. Their punishment is loss of their tracker and honor. Lose everything they worked for. As well at very minimum a month timeout. AND pertinently on a shame list and watched. Much like a criminal record. - or steroid abusers in sports
but a steroid abuser doesn't lose his gains, so he doesn't give a fuck :)
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I think you should be banned for wanting hackers to be allowed back.
If anything they should be allowed back if they show remorse. BUT only on a new account. Their punishment is loss of their tracker and honor. Lose everything they worked for. As well at very minimum a month timeout. AND pertinently on a shame list and watched. Much like a criminal record. - or steroid abusers in sports
+ 1 week therapy with dave as psychologist
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but a steroid abuser doesn't lose his gains, so he doesn't give a fuck :)
Sure they do. Just look at someone who has been using roids for any period of time and then quits using. They go from big bad and buff to shriveled sickly looking.
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Sure they do. Just look at someone who has been using roids for any period of time and then quits using. They go from big bad and buff to shriveled sickly looking.
that's not what were talking about? we are talking about trophies etc etc
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that's not what were talking about? we are talking about trophies etc etc
LOL Well maybe and maybe not. In the last few years there has been baseball players who have awards they received while using steroids but yet are being kept from entering the hall of fame because of the same. And then you have the athletes in the olympics who test positive and are stripped of the metals on the spot.
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I think you should be banned for wanting hackers to be allowed back.
If anything they should be allowed back if they show remorse. BUT only on a new account. Their punishment is loss of their tracker and honor. Lose everything they worked for. As well at very minimum a month timeout. AND pertinently on a shame list and watched. Much like a criminal record. - or steroid abusers in sports
Do most criminals care about their criminal record? :)
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Do most criminals care about their criminal record? :)
I sure the hell do, shit u do as a kid follows u the rest of you're life unless you have it expunged from you're record
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Funny thing is that they unban people using AHK or some shit like that, even if they do it more often. But they perma ban people doing shit like no recoil, get your shit right and perma ban EVERY hacker
that's my opinion
an example: mr. morti.jabba who's still using shiet
100% I agree. AHK users shouldn't get a 1-week ban.
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If i'm not mistaken that was a decision made by Jonny, so why do you keep guiding by his
methodologies?
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Steroid users will lose gains that are above their natural ability. - example. You could potentially hit your genitic max after say 8 years of hard training. Then stay literally at that max. Take roids - surpass those limits, but once off you will lose that.
If you take roids from the start you MAY keep the most of the gains so long as they are within your genetic max. But if you go above and beyond your genetic max you will without a doubt lose the muscle mass and what not.
As for the trophies and what not - they are generally marked - ie in MLB iirc they have astrics by their names on records and stuff to show they were caught abusing drugs. - also look at lance armstrong they are taking away his records, trophies, and even pursuing him legally due to endorsements and what not.
About the criminal record - yes absolutely they do care....or at least if you ever intend on being a straight shooting citizen. If affects you ability to get many jobs. - At least here in Canada any important job I have had required a criminal record check, child abuse check and drivers abstract check.
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If people were to be given a 2nd chance, I think it would be a good idea to make start all over again with a fresh account. Maybe even a cool tag so those who see them in game, would know that they are on the watch list, have cheated before and so on. Just like a pedophile, they're marked for life with it, maybe a hacker should be marked and on probation for say six months, this way it's easy to see their stats and for the whole community to be on watch. And this is only if someone was given another chance. I'm not exactly for it though.
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Finally something constructive... Hacker tag is a good idea.
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Hacker tag is ridiculous, what does that help? So people are going to talk shit to you? And pretty sure alot of admins are gonna ban you
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A cool hacker tag would be great maybe a light above hackers head, or even a big pig head. :idea:
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Hacker tag is ridiculous, what does that help? So people are going to talk shit to you? And pretty sure alot of admins are gonna ban you
What are you afraid of - that you'll be the first who will get it ..?
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it's proven that people can still make new second accounts, so why would there be a tag if player doesn't play with same account anymore? What's the point?
A good idea would be to first of all, post all the banned guys in the hall of shame. I don't see why there should be only a few of them ... And give back the 'latest banned' feature
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What are you afraid of - that you'll be the first who will get it ..?
I honestly don't care, everyone hates me already :)
Just sticking up for other hackers, It's like jews wearing star of david :down:
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Just sticking up for other hackers, It's like jews wearing star of david :down:
Yep, this is the idea - It's like 'hall of shame' in run-time... Maybe something simple, like tag 'HC' before the nickname, which after a certain period (3-6 month..?) will be removed.
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Yep, this is the idea - It's like 'hall of shame' in run-time... Maybe something simple, like tag 'HC' before the nickname, which after a certain period (3-6 month..?) will be removed.
Give one valid reason why it should be removed?
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I honestly don't care, everyone hates me already :)
Just sticking up for other hackers, It's like jews wearing star of david :down:
Na not true I don't hate u, :D
Everyone makes dum mistakes otherwise you wouldn't be human
And u where never ignorant
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r u serious????
u cheat u get ban period
how stupid can players be to pay for a stupid ass cheat when they can help out here donate to keep this game alive, so much have been done to keep this game alive, only to get ruin by stupid ass kiddie cheats
i can't really understand why players feel the need to use a stupid cheat, really think about it what dam pleasure do u get really out of it??
ban policy here is great no need to change shit, u get caught ur gone for good, sounds good to me
Everyone makes dum mistakes otherwise you wouldn't be human
:idea:
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The word hate is beeing used to easily.
I don't hate you personally, I only dislike the choices you made ingame
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From some people you dont expect things like this, that I do hate sometimes.
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Give one valid reason why it should be removed?
...we are not Nazis..? :poorguy:
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...we are not Nazis..? :poorguy:
So giving hackers a tag, and NEVER remove it, is being nazi? I asked for a valid argument, not a joke. But there is probably none. IF hackers get a tag, there is no reason the tag should be removed ... It's to warn people that he has been caught once, so keep an eye on him ...
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... It's to warn people that he has been caught once, so keep an eye on him ...
Basically, you're right, but there is possibility that people will complain too much - which should not to happen if tag will be just temporary.
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but there is possibility that people will complain too much.
Are you making a joke or something?
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Its not right for them to continue to carry stats that were obtained with cheats. Their accounts should be deleted and their new one marked at least on tracker, not necessarily in game. Although maybe give them an icon that says 2nd chance;)
As well of course as being publicly shamed. Reason being is they are giving second chances and if they just change their name people no longer associate them as the scum they are :)
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Are you making a joke or something?
Nope... Look, read between the lines...
For each: 'Why..?';'For what..?';'Can be removed..?' someone needs to answer - devs are busy already... Besides, questions like this are annoying and will spam the forum. For the same reason, I suggested ban from the forum and send only personal message with conditions.
Second, I see no objections If guy will show the regret of what he did. Tag period should be long enough, to satisfy both sides.
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Don t led it come so far
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g
Give them time to think!!! 3 time s is out!!!!!
1- 3 month
2- half year
3- out!! thx bye!!
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Here is a novel idea...
1 ban... never play again.
Why are we discussing this?
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Nope... Look, read between the lines...
For each: 'Why..?';'For what..?';'Can be removed..?' someone needs to answer - devs are busy already... Besides, questions like this are annoying and will spam the forum. For the same reason, I suggested ban from the forum and send only personal message with conditions.
Second, I see no objections If guy will show the regret of what he did. Tag period should be long enough, to satisfy both sides.
This will bring more hackers. They have nothing to lose ... Imagine I go on holiday 2 months. I hack just before the holidays to see if my hacks are detected. Im banned. I come back from holiday, I say sorry, I can play again. Life's beautiful
Here is a novel idea...
1 ban... never play again.
Why are we discussing this?
So let's ban all AHK right? No more temporary ban
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Here is a novel idea...
1 ban... never play again.
Why are we discussing this?
Interesting standpoint considering your past actions have been completely contradictory...because you have already given second chances to hackers in the past. I wont rant, ill keep it simple with 1 single example. that pit kid, and other chumps dabbling with other ones as well.
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Here is a novel idea...
1 ban... never play again.
(Gif new player the info about the way it goes when you hack ore cheat and assist find them!)
Every budy must have a 2 cheance its oke first time caught 1/2 year out and a announcement in hall of shame , after that a new start.
2 time Permanent Ban !
Why are we discussing this?
I think and not only me, that sum players realy have regret ! and do wanne play this good game.
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Interesting standpoint considering your past actions have been completely contradictory...because you have already given second chances to hackers in the past. I wont rant, ill keep it simple with 1 single example. that pit kid, and other chumps dabbling with other ones as well.
There's alot, those iF guys, alot of israelis and all the AHK/noflash users on hall of shame
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Interesting standpoint considering your past actions have been completely contradictory...because you have already given second chances to hackers in the past. I wont rant, ill keep it simple with 1 single example. that pit kid, and other chumps dabbling with other ones as well.
Excuse me DAV know ur fuckn facts before u rip on eliz, he has done nothing but hoid things for assist,
if u read the dam forums u would know who unban him,
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Don t led it come so far
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g
Give them time to think!!! 3 time s is out!!!!!
1- 3 month
2- half year
3- out!! thx bye!!
It's almost the same as I suggested before (http://aao25.com/2-5-assist/banning-policy/msg56685/#msg56685).
Here is a novel idea...
1 ban... never play again.
Why are we discussing this?
Strange statement for a guy who was making/use the hacks... BTW: you're here because of second chance. I thought, you will be the first one who believes in redemption.
...Imagine I go on holiday 2 months. I hack just before the holidays to see if my hacks are detected. Im banned. I come back from holiday, I say sorry, I can play again. Life's beautiful...
Not exactly, if i.e. after three month of punishment and next 3-6 under observation (with hacker tag etc.) he will say 'I'm sorry' here on forum, it will be good thing and first step to forgiveness. Of course, he will remain on the list of suspects anyway.
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Excuse me DAV know ur fuckn facts before u rip on eliz, he has done nothing but hoid things for assist,
if u read the dam forums u would know who unban him,
LOL how am I ripping on him? Stating the truth? Geez Im so sorry for holding him, an admin, accountable for the actions of other admins? They have indeed allowed hackers back in the past have they not? How is that wrong?
we got a fanboy here!
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Strange statement for a guy who was making/use the hacks... BTW: you're here because of second chance. I thought, you will be the first one who believes in redemption.
What do you mean?
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He thinks you are Spanky or Possessed.
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Here is a novel idea...
1 ban... never play again.
Why are we discussing this?
Exactly. That is if the ban is for hacking/cheating and not for an admin in pissy mood for being owned or other type things that don't involve hack/cheat. The way some people are acting we need to forgive and forget as if the player accidentally went and either coded a hack or searched for one and then installed it and ultimately used it and gets caught when it isn't accidental because they willingly and maliciously do this.
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He thinks you are Spanky or Possessed.
... and you are Santa Claus ...
What do you mean?
Be serious...
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Let's stay on topic guys.
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Be serious...
And I am, I have NEVER been banned by any organization or server owner.
This is me:
http://battletracker.com/playerstats/aao/2802/
Same account that I've been using since I started playing a few weeks after AA's release.
I've ALWAYS worn a white hat when it have come to online gaming, and if you think otherwise, you are in error.
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... I have NEVER been banned by any organization or server owner...
It was not about: you were caught or not - forget...
On Topic:
I think that there is enough informations in this thread to go ahead and take by Devs some decisions - by poll, by discusion between Devs - it's your call...
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LOL I dit say this a year ago Hooah
It's almost the same as I suggested before (http://aao25.com/2-5-assist/banning-policy/msg56685/#msg56685).
Strange statement for a guy who was making/use the hacks... BTW: you're here because of second chance. I thought, you will be the first one who believes in redemption.
Not exactly, if i.e. after three month of punishment and next 3-6 under observation (with hacker tag etc.) he will say 'I'm sorry' here on forum, it will be good thing and first step to forgiveness. Of course, he will remain on the list of suspects anyway.
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I say go for the perm ban on every hacker, no unban :D
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I say go for the perm ban on every hacker, no unban :D
Same
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Here is a novel idea...
1 ban... never play again.
Why are we discussing this?
my point exactly, players with ban account have there 2nd chance here, no reason to have others once caught here to play here again
case closed
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I see we need a poll - read all posts before voting.
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No need to read anything with such a easy question.
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Any chance to see who voted yes? So it might be a warning for server admins ^^
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inb4 100 hackers create account to vote yes
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I say perma ban, because hacker tag is way too vague.
I would only agree to the hacker tag with other conditions. Their accounts get deleted and had to start fresh - honor / aa account, as well as tracker. AND got this tag, as well as remaining on the hall of shame.
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LOL I dit say this a year ago Hooah
hooah!
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LOL I dit say this a year ago Hooah
Hooah Vanoke!
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Well my opinion is they get ban, they come back create another account and they cheat again! and that should be their second chance! I said "NO" keeps those noobs out! :down:
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No need to read anything with such a easy question.
Intelligent people will always read, what will be signed.
Why..? i.e.
I would only agree to the hacker tag with other conditions. Their accounts get deleted and had to start fresh - honor / aa account, as well as tracker. AND got this tag, as well as remaining on the hall of shame.
...there is +/- 20 posts talking about 'Hacker Tag', but he still don't know that conditions are not definitive (the same for 'Second chance'...) and he is close to what we have talking about.
This poll is just to know if the second chance should be given or not.
...and those two, one post above - just no words...
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Intelligent people will always read, what will be signed.
Why..? i.e....there is +/- 20 posts talking about 'Hacker Tag', but he still don't know that conditions are not definitive (the same for 'Second chance'...) and he is close to what we have talking about.
This poll is just to know if the second chance should be given or not.
...and those two, one post above - just no words...
Rightt.......and like I said, without strict conditions on top the hacker tag I wouldnt vote for that option. Making each of these voting options non accurate and have overlapping grey areas.
Because the only options are yes, tag or ban....there are no details.
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... Because the only options are yes, tag or ban....there are no details.
For the details is this thread - that why you should read it... But don't worry, your opposition can't win because majority of active people here are conservatives.
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For the details is this thread - that why you should read it... But don't worry, your opposition can't win because majority of active people here are conservatives.
Or maybe you should learn how to properly present a poll, properly ask a question, and have all information easily available in your 1st post so that people can make a proper selection? That is if you expect the poll to accurately represent the desired outcome you better ask the question properly - instead of assuming everyone's going to troll through 6 pages, before going back to make their vote lmao. I see you put a lot of thought into this.
That would make too much sense tho.
How do you expect this poll to accurately represent anything when you have so much grey area - oh wait, you edited ur 1st post to say read all 6 pages LOL
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Well my opinion is they get ban, they come back create another account and they cheat again! and that should be their second chance! I said "NO" keeps those noobs out! :down:
Lol all this time I didn't see the vote option, also voted hellllll NO
:censored: :censored: :banned:
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If someone is seen with ahk/unreal/no recoil they should get a 2nd chance only if they pay donation 20 Euro. (more or less) At least they can contribute to the community. If they are spotted with another account or trying to register a new account = perm ban. Hacker tag cannot lead to anything good.
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I could understand the losers who used auto hot key - if im right it is a way to basically make complex binds / press multiple buttons in a pattern or w.e?
That can also be done with logitec gaming software if you have gaming grade keyboard of mouse.....so that in my eyes is a minor infraction. - unless im wrong about ahk / auto hot keys abilities.
BUT when your playing with actual HACKS ie no recoil, no breathing, no flash and all out multi hacks like unreal bot you deserve no second chance unless it comes with loss of your account and tracker and forced to start fresh and kept on the hall of shame. - AND have a tag / diff symbol showing you have been a piece of sh1t.
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If someone is seen with ahk/unreal/no recoil they should get a 2nd chance only if they pay donation 20 Euro. (more or less).
O_o
I find that to be wrong in an infinite amount of ways.
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If someone is seen with ahk/unreal/no recoil they should get a 2nd chance only if they pay donation 20 Euro. (more or less) At least they can contribute to the community. If they are spotted with another account or trying to register a new account = perm ban. Hacker tag cannot lead to anything good.
Kari stop smoking that shit, you talk poop
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Up next we should put a poll seeing what percent of people think an iq test should be mandatory to post here lol
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Why is that so wrong? They do get a second chance, but only one second chance. And it helps raise money for the assist project. Same like they pay for their kiddie cheats.
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meaning its ok to cheat, but IF you get caught you have to cough up a measly 30$ ( in my currency, roughly )? lol
thats chump change
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Why is that so wrong? They do get a second chance, but only one second chance. And it helps raise money for the assist project. Same like they pay for their kiddie cheats.
The only thing that would help is build up Eliz his bank.
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meaning its ok to cheat, but IF you get caught you have to cough up a measly 30$ ( in my currency, roughly )? lol
thats chump change
Current situation is: its ok to cheat, but IF you get caught you have to wait a week and then you are unbanned.
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Current situation is: its ok to cheat, but IF you get caught you have to wait a week and then you are unbanned.
That only goes for AHK.
The bans I add, I do in accordance with the current rules, I don't make the rules.
If you want AHK bans to be perm ban, you are more then welcome to post a new poll in the issue.
If you do, I'm sure I'll vote yes.
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Up next we should put a poll seeing what percent of people think an iq test should be mandatory to post here lol
LOL Dave is being funny today, he made a joke, LOL.
Go fuk yr mirror
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That only goes for AHK.
The bans I add, I do in accordance with the current rules, I don't make the rules.
If you want AHK bans to be perm ban, you are more then welcome to post a new poll in the issue.
If you do, I'm sure I'll vote yes.
Sounds good to me, hopefully everyone would agree
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lol its 12:14 yes:no
someone pm israelis to vote
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Or maybe you should learn how to properly present a poll, properly ask a question, and have all information easily available in your 1st post so that people can make a proper selection? That is if you expect the poll to accurately represent the desired outcome you better ask the question properly - instead of assuming everyone's going to troll through 6 pages, before going back to make their vote lmao. I see you put a lot of thought into this.
That would make too much sense tho.
How do you expect this poll to accurately represent anything when you have so much grey area - oh wait, you edited ur 1st post to say read all 6 pages LOL
You're good at sarcasm, but not good enough... :poorguy:
There is no point to bring in to the poll all related to the 'Second Chance' options, simply because we didn't even know if second chance will be given. If true, we can discuss the details of condition, but for now, it's just pointless...
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Cheaters have to earn their badge, make them donate
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After going through the whole 7 pages of supposedly consistent debate on par with the OP, I can only conclude that it seems a more akin tendency to see threads turning into various sets of user-vs-user nonsense. In fact, it seems as though most of the threads on the forum get hijacked through abundance of ego and not-so-much of any kind of contingency whatsoever.
Maybe we ought to be more pragmatical?
On-Topic:
The current debate is, if considerate solely of the actions that should be taken towards hackers/users who've used hacks, at such a low level of relevance that it bears no real practicability and/or rentability to mingle about. Just in the same fashion that you do not tackle the issue of real-life murder without taking into concern the variants that affect it.
People hack. Always have. Always will.
The focus should not be in revamping the ethics which will in turn affect the set of rules by which the community inflicts upon said hackers. If anything, the debate should have in attendance the possible manoeuvres to prevent hacking from being so noticeable.
Possibilities:
Maybe server-owners should be open-minded to the idea of giving Admin rights to a few members that they know are legit, active and trustful and that may or may not be members of their clan --we did this when DrAAT was still around. In fact, the official AA 2.5 Community Servers were mine and although some of my clan members had Administrative Powers in them, the majority of the Admins were respected members of the community and people I knew I could trust. This is one of the ways we got around to fixing the server-issue.
Another solution could be --as I recall seeing it back in 2.3 and subsequently in early-2.5-- creating a dedicated server meant for hackers only. Name it Hacker's Paradise, what have you. This made it so that hackers would knowingly use hacks and play against each other without having to hide it, to slide it or to tide it. On their server. It kept them there.
Further enhanced versions of the above suggestions and/or new suggestions are more than welcome. So long as they are executable at core and aim towards the resolution of a hack-free community.
Point of View:
In my eyes, while it is a menace to realise that hackers are a common breed in online-gaming, it also seems to me as though it may be one of the best direct-promotion towards the unification of a community that --if lead with a honest, humble and fair mindset-- can tackle the issue without leaving space for emotional judgement to rule over.
P.S:. I voted Hacker Tag. It was the only option that resolved around the inter-exchange of knowledge within the community as opposed to the simple individual action-plans that follow (as should they) the rigid fundaments through which all must be made fit to.
/Dan
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Cheaters have to earn their badge, make them donate
why the hell would you give a cheater the oppurtunity to earn a badge by letting them donate for a game , seriously you think they will stopp cheating ??? they burned there bridges at the moment they started cheating ,,,,,,, just let them stay out of the game ,any cheater that has been cheating will always try to find a way to cheat again , ( A FOX WILL LOOSE THEIR HAIRS BUT THE TRICKS THEY DONE THEY WONT FORGET) my opinion is cheating on a game should be punished and not been giving a 2nd change
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Possibilities:
Maybe server-owners should be open-minded to the idea of giving Admin rights to a few members that they know are legit, active and trustful and that may or may not be members of their clan --we did this when DrAAT was still around. In fact, the official AA 2.5 Community Servers were mine and although some of my clan members had Administrative Powers in them, the majority of the Admins were respected members of the community and people I knew I could trust. This is one of the ways we got around to fixing the server-issue.
With such a little amount of players online, there's only a few populated servers online. Server admins will change into powerful nazis abusing their powers in the most ways possible, experienced it yesterday again.
If you don't believe me, look at the numbers. At the moment 16 players online, 105 servers. Why would this game require 105 servers with so few players? Because all people want to have their server, so they can make rules and kick whoever they want.
An ideal situation would be 30 servers, server admins from different clans, or no clan at all, so there will be no abuse from one certain type of people.
I personally doubt hacker paradise would be of any good to the game, since it will encourage hackers to make better and better hacks to beat other hackers, and at a certain point they will just come over to normal servers, because they got owned by other hackers. Let me remind you that the objectives of most hackers is to feel 'better' than others. So I think the hacker's paradise will only attract the best hackers (probably those who make their own hacks) and that the kids that buy the hacks will get raped and go normal server.
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why the hell would you give a cheater the oppurtunity to earn a badge by letting them donate for a game , seriously you think they will stopp cheating ??? they burned there bridges at the moment they started cheating ,,,,,,, just let them stay out of the game ,any cheater that has been cheating will always try to find a way to cheat again , ( A FOX WILL LOOSE THEIR HAIRS BUT THE TRICKS THEY DONE THEY WONT FORGET) my opinion is cheating on a game should be punished and not been giving a 2nd change
I fully agree with you, my proposal was just ironical.
I personally doubt hacker paradise would be of any good to the game, since it will encourage hackers to make better and better hacks to beat other hackers, and at a certain point they will just come over to normal servers, because they got owned by other hackers. Let me remind you that the objectives of most hackers is to feel 'better' than others. So I think the hacker's paradise will only attract the best hackers (probably those who make their own hacks) and that the kids that buy the hacks will get raped and go normal server.
+1
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Reminder to myself: kick ganja next time I see him
Hehe
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I see three users here, who deserve a badge and who works hard for this game not with the coding but with the words. Dav3, Nobigdeal and MIKKAWE.
Why?
Simple. They are true users of this forum, each time they post they put suggestion for the whole community and don't post whore and make off topic jokes. Most users don't even think about others. Imagine you've been banned and how would you fell in the hackers place? Of course you would want a second chance, and of course you would say I'm sorry I won't do it again. Why are admins so strict against the hackers? Why they use so much shit towards them? What about other games such as AA2.8, AA3, AA4, do they use such a crap piece of security to spy on others computers?
For admins I would say start to think. Start to make hard decisions that would bring more people, this was the aim of the original devs and so do it, stop thinking about the security, it is way to strict. Why you wouldn't give a second chance? Are you not a human being? Is it so hard, hard to forgive, give a second chance? The punishment is too hard. It's just a video game and shows about your personality. It's true, this game will die it's obvious, like it's been said in 5 years and i believe it will be sooner so everyone should get their chance to play the game. Remove their accounts, remove all ''who hacked'' accounts so they can start again, fresh start with the TAG.
I voted for the TAG option. People who say they deserve a perm ban are stupid and don't think into the future. I'm talking to stop fucking around and stop hating hackers, even AA3 wasn't so strict about them, as they, we, tried to stop them. We just led the game on. Look how many are banned, unbanning them would bring even more players and would make more servers full.
Server Problem fix:
Too many servers. 105 servers and a small player base. Start to run your own assist servers. Or let clans know that assist at least doesn't tolerate this. Or make at least maximum of 25 servers allowed to be hosted. Something can be thinked for this fix.
For Assist Fix:
You are not humans. Without forgiving you are not. We all did mistakes have we not? Don't tell me you never tried or wanted to hack and don't tell me you haven't worked with hacks before or if you are working right now. I see that admins like to ignore, they don't think into the future and they don't want to make risky and hard decisions neverless it must be done. The TERMS OF AGREEMENT thing wasn't until most of the people got banned, no warning nothing to warn them..., when all got banned you now make that shit. Very disappointed. Maybe most of them didn't even go to forum and didn't see that strict punishment...
For ELIZ:
Disappointed that's all. Now you are following Johnny. You are following his steps to make the game secure at its finest but will it it work for long? the answer is no. Just watch out ELIZ, don't make the mistake Johnny did. Too much for this game and you are not trust able anymore. Stop contrasting your full hate on hackers. You now how they fell, you know that hacking is educational for good and bad. Had they seen the TERMS OF AGREEMENT until you made one? no I don't think so.
I don't support hackers but comon, they are not killing the game the community and the assist is. I mean it's people.
Start to think and start to forgive.
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@ArmyAntiCheat
Look how many are banned, unbanning them would bring even more players and would make more servers full.
This is a misbelief.
Only one hacker can bring at least 2 clean players to quit with this game.
The more of this cheating bastards are playing the higher the chances are to loose regular ones.
But you are right, it's only a video game, one out of thousand.
So there is no reason for people who play for fun to stay with this particular one if it is full of hackers.
BTW:
I wonder what shitstorm would go on if someone with a "Hacker Tag" entering a server...
Impossible solution!
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you talk about 25 game maps while there are 68 games that you can play in forceclass ore normal that makes 136 diffrent play grownds so to many server is not the problem its oke people can see how many maps are in assist and they can play it so fare they are running. thats good for the outsite new comming players that can see all not only 25 maps.
Jhonny is not Eliz ,Eliz lissend to the poll and Jhonny was only lissterning to his self.!!!
I see three users here, who deserve a badge and who works hard for this game not with the coding but with the words. Dav3, Nobigdeal and MIKKAWE.
Why?
Simple. They are true users of this forum, each time they post they put suggestion for the whole community and don't post whore and make off topic jokes. Most users don't even think about others. Imagine you've been banned and how would you fell in the hackers place? Of course you would want a second chance, and of course you would say I'm sorry I won't do it again. Why are admins so strict against the hackers? Why they use so much shit towards them? What about other games such as AA2.8, AA3, AA4, do they use such a crap piece of security to spy on others computers?
For admins I would say start to think. Start to make hard decisions that would bring more people, this was the aim of the original devs and so do it, stop thinking about the security, it is way to strict. Why you wouldn't give a second chance? Are you not a human being? Is it so hard, hard to forgive, give a second chance? The punishment is too hard. It's just a video game and shows about your personality. It's true, this game will die it's obvious, like it's been said in 5 years and i believe it will be sooner so everyone should get their chance to play the game. Remove their accounts, remove all ''who hacked'' accounts so they can start again, fresh start with the TAG.
I voted for the TAG option. People who say they deserve a perm ban are stupid and don't think into the future. I'm talking to stop fucking around and stop hating hackers, even AA3 wasn't so strict about them, as they, we, tried to stop them. We just led the game on. Look how many are banned, unbanning them would bring even more players and would make more servers full.
Server Problem fix:
Too many servers. 105 servers and a small player base. Start to run your own assist servers. Or let clans know that assist at least doesn't tolerate this. Or make at least maximum of 25 servers allowed to be hosted. Something can be thinked for this fix.
For Assist Fix:
You are not humans. Without forgiving you are not. We all did mistakes have we not? Don't tell me you never tried or wanted to hack and don't tell me you haven't worked with hacks before or if you are working right now. I see that admins like to ignore, they don't think into the future and they don't want to make risky and hard decisions neverless it must be done. The TERMS OF AGREEMENT thing wasn't until most of the people got banned, no warning nothing to warn them..., when all got banned you now make that shit. Very disappointed. Maybe most of them didn't even go to forum and didn't see that strict punishment...
For ELIZ:
Disappointed that's all. Now you are following Johnny. You are following his steps to make the game secure at its finest but will it it work for long? the answer is no. Just watch out ELIZ, don't make the mistake Johnny did. Too much for this game and you are not trust able anymore. Stop contrasting your full hate on hackers. You now how they fell, you know that hacking is educational for good and bad. Had they seen the TERMS OF AGREEMENT until you made one? no I don't think so.
I don't support hackers but comon, they are not killing the game the community and the assist is. I mean it's people.
Start to think and start to forgive.
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Don't tell me you never tried or wanted to hack and don't tell me you haven't worked with hacks before or if you are working right now.
No, I never felt any urges in that direction.
For ELIZ:
Disappointed that's all. Now you are following Johnny. You are following his steps to make the game secure at its finest but will it it work for long? the answer is no. Just watch out ELIZ, don't make the mistake Johnny did. Too much for this game and you are not trust able anymore. Stop contrasting your full hate on hackers. You now how they fell, you know that hacking is educational for good and bad. Had they seen the TERMS OF AGREEMENT until you made one? no I don't think so.
Yes, hacking is a dual edged sword, cheating is NOT!
The poll in this thread and in the one for AutoHotKey clearly shows that the remaining players want the current direction of AntiCheat.
As I stated in another thread, I let the majority rule.
If I would not like what the majority likes, I would not be a part of this thing we call 25Assist.
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I have sinds the biginning great fun in the game and all players that only play this game to,
The stress in forums topics here every time!!!!!, about hacks and cheats is greater than that it is in reality.
1 - I don t know if sum maps have more problems than adders but i see and look and find in all the time that i was playing this game 3 yes tree times that a little boy ore girl dit juse summting that spoiled it for the rest.
I kickt and ban them and thats it. thats for dowing cheats ore hack
2 -Adder point is the language ore the way players behave them self aganst adders in game and in forum.
for me it can be a reason to kick ore ban him. ore tell him he is not welcome!
3- Adder simple way to kick ore ban a player is ( you cant proof that he is dowing summthing but his K/D rate is unbeliveble high and he play all your gamers from your server. i have one exemple that guy is banned sinds 2010 in 2.8.5 and he is in talking oke but we all think he hase summthing but we can t proof.
So in a clan dissision we banned him ..
@ArmyAntiCheatThis is a misbelief.
Only one hacker can bring at least 2 clean players to quit with this game.
The more of this cheating bastards are playing the higher the chances are to loose regular ones.
But you are right, it's only a video game, one out of thousand.
So there is no reason for people who play for fun to stay with this particular one if it is full of hackers.
BTW:
I wonder what shitstorm would go on if someone with a "Hacker Tag" entering a server...
Impossible solution!
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Why do we need 30 days for a poll? To round up all your hacker buds out from under the rocks to come vote? Going to some pretty extreme measures to try and get what you want.
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Why do we need 30 days for a poll? To round up all your hacker buds out from under the rocks to come vote? Going to some pretty extreme measures to try and get what you want.
we'll said
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WTH!!! Spanky, where is my post!!?
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I don't see how a hacker tag is an even remotely good idea. They would just get kicked by every server admin. I also don't like the idea of requiring a bribe, er, I'm sorry, a donation, to get them unbanned. I fail to see how letting hackers back into the game will help the community as a whole. If anything, it's just going to divide everyone, especially if a hacker tag is implemented. Just ban them and be done with it. I've always had a zero tolerance stance when it comes to cheating though.
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A hacker tag would get banned or kick from every server .
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Be serious, hacks are for free too...
...maybe because you don't/can't/wan't see the bigger picture... From what I see, this game/community is dying - with every permanent ban = one player less. Even if 1/100 cheater will regret for what he's done (or his brother, sister etc. :D) and after his punishment he will play honorably, then is worth it to give him that chance. What is most important he will stay with community - more players to play with...
To be clear: it's not because of my personal interest, I don't play this game, never played and (most probably) never will... It's because I've seen a lot of collapse of small communities like this one.
Sounds like extortion
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Well i think there should be a way to see on BT if players are banned or not, but i guess that's non of your power?
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Why not just explore ways to prevent, or simply catch, cheating? Before the ball dropped about Assist (when we possibly almost lost it forever), I had a long discussion with one of the admins/devs on xfire about some of the ways to deal with things like this. I've played this thing a long, long time -- at the very apex of competition we've been blessed to have in this game. Over a span of 10 years, I've been intimately familiarized with nearly every aspect of being an AA Player -- a "scrub," a "pubscrub," a "cheater," a "starter" on top teams, a "head admin" of a league, all the way to an "Anticheat" guy who infiltrated the hacking underworld, along with Reaper ACI.
When playing in these leagues and competitions -- Cal Invites, HTGN, TWL, AGC, Cevo Professional, etc -- there were similarities and differences in the way they handled matters like this. We can examine some of their successes and failures to determine effective ways to stop, underscore, and deter cheating.
But firstly, let's address some pivotal info about hacks. Hacks are pretty useless if you don't have the visuals (i.e. wallhacks, radars/esp, etc), especially if the cheater is attempting to be discrete about their cheating. If a cheater wants to 'aimbot,' they have to 'know' where the enemies are, so that they are not in the peculiar situation of multiple enemies being in their field of view, because this would make the player spin around everywhere like the Exorcist, constantly 'locking on' to heads (and the cheater better not EVER go idle, hahahah). This, of course, is a huge indicator of aimbot usage. Similarly, playing with no recoil is not a great idea for cheaters looking to hide their artificial "skills," as first-person spectating and bullet-spread decals will quickly highlight their digital malice. Without the visuals, fundamentally, all a hacker is really left with is "no-flash" (if their hack even has something like that). And no-flash is not enough to give them that great of an edge anyway, as they would have to "fake the funk" to prevent detection, so the point would be vacuous. So, with this info, let's examine the leagues and find some interesting information, which can EASILY help us in these modern days of Assist:
TWL -- it had an interesting run over the years, but after the first couple of major seasons, its significance and popularity began to wane, and slowly continued to do so, on up till the end, because of its insecure, yet stringent AC practices. TWL's AC could be easily bypassed. It did the basic stuff -- checked processes, scanned for extraneous things and general AA-centric system anomalies, but it barely ever caught "good" hacks. What made a hack "good" was not only its ability to bypass initial detection of a league's AC client and Punkbuster with its proprietary, constantly-updated hooking methods, but also its ability to discern the algorithm with which Punkbuster, and a league's AC client, use to capture players' screenshots (this is VERY important). Well, I don't think TWL ever got around to making its AC client take screenshots at all; and if it did, it captured them in a similar, "set," "static" fashion like PB's capturing method.
If an AC client is coded to only capture screenshots in a "set" fashion -- say, every 96 seconds -- then this is blatant predictability. What I believe I was told about PB was that its "updates" incorporated different static "set" capturing methods, which then prompted hack developers to update their visuals-bypass functions to correspond with the modifications within the updates for PB (and whatever else they were attempting to circumvent). So, with no implemented method of capturing "good" hacks, what TWL resorted to -- which contributed, greatly, to its lack of relevance -- was ban people for all sorts of stuff, like linked accounts (even loosely linked), pub bans, forum bans/disruptions, and all manners of things that weren't even pertinent to playing in TWL itself and on its client. This, in itself, was a huge indicator that it had no trust in its AC client. Top, well-respected players in AA who have never touched a cheat, or even been accused of a cheat, have been permanently banned from TWL, but those players didn't even care, because no one really trusted TWL in the first place, EVEN WITH their strange, paranoid, anti-cheat measures.
In CAL, early on, it was scientifically proven that their AC client was a complete and literal joke; meaning, essentially, it did n o t h i n g at all. It did, however, probably scare some people into not hacking in CAL, but the client itself was a bluff. Later on, though, they did get it to do something. It did an interesting job at catching hooking/injecting methods, but it still wasn't good enough, as its screenshotting method was static. The Cal "ACS" was updated a lot, though, because of people like me and Reaper. At that time, I had many connections in the hacking underworld. Hackers shared with me their forum accounts, and so I had access to these hacks whenever they were updated, and so Reaper and I would grab them and send them to Punkbuster and the leagues' AC depts (particularly CAL, as it was the biggest, most important league at the time). Ehhh, this operation we had going had to remain kinda hush, which means many people don't even know this was going on, as my hacking connections would've fucked me up (some of those dudes were seriously mentally ill/psycho). In fact, it had already happened once before when a well-known hacker got pissed at me and screwed with my computer for a few weeks. lol, I think Jonny from audigy/IoG remembers this time. But I've digressed. So the only reason some people's visuals were detected on CAL ACS was because we were sending the updated versions of the hacks directly to the leagues' AC (oftentimes before a lot of the cheaters even got a chance to download them, lol). This allowed CAL ACS to update its SS-capturing intervals, and so folks who tried to cheat on the ACS got banned because they had hacks that weren't updated to bypass its visuals on the right intervals. But doing this week after week was an annoying thing, and doing something similar today is not feasible; plus, I have no clue who's manufacturing AA2 hacks these days, and I'm sure the folks who DO know are not willing to do what I used to do.
Then, among others, we have the CEVO league. CEVO's AC client -- named "CMN3" at the time -- was probably the most feared AC client in the history of America's Army. We had to pay to play in this league, so the AC had to be trustworthy, and it was. Because of the secrecy surrounding all that it did, I'm not entirely certain about everything regarding this client. HOWEVER, I did find out something quite profound regarding why hack developers gave up on it. Turns out that CEVO took random, unpredictable screenshots. Now this is something I talked to Possessed about on Xfire during the recent, ephemeral death of Assist. This type of capturing method is beautiful; and with Assist being our very own AC Client, I think that there are substantive ways of catching hackers and leaving the ones we don't catch heavily debilitated (and 'catchable' if they become tempted to 'get good'). As I said earlier, without their visuals, it becomes a daunting proposition if they want to go unnoticed. A cheater without the visuals is either going to be a bizarre, spinning, Exorcist-like Blatant-Bobby, or he's going to be pretty bad, like everyone else. haha --
As of right now, although many don't realize this because they didn't read the new Assist agreement, Assist can take screenshots, but I'm not entirely certain if it takes the screenshots automatically and randomly. If we could incorporate this ability into Assist (if it's not already there yet, as I suggested to Possessed), then couldn't we just shoot for this? The screenshots could be automatically uploaded to a server, or servers, old PB style, where they can be viewed on an webpage that simply lists links to images of players' screenshots. This would use up some bandwidth, but it shouldn't be that bad at all. Perhaps we could do an auto-purging thing for these SS images after, say, 48 hours or whatever. This would help free up server-capacity space.
In closing, after all my years of AA, the most effective AC method I've seen was the client (CMN3) that took random screenshots, and not the set, predictable screenshots of everything else, including PB. And as for banning policy, I say if they cheat on Assist, charge them $300 to play again. Assist, at its core, is already a second-chance thing, and cheating in a game that only has a handful of players is really messed up. But a perma-ban would just mean 1 less player. Make them pay; this could help with the development.
SORRY FOR THE WALL OF TEXT!!!
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As of right now, although many don't realize this because they didn't read the new Assist agreement, Assist can take screenshots, but I'm not entirely certain if it takes the screenshots automatically and randomly. If we could incorporate this ability into Assist (if it's not already there yet, as I suggested to Possessed), then couldn't we just shoot for this? The screenshots could be automatically uploaded to a server, or servers, old PB style, where they can be viewed on an webpage that simply lists links to images of players' screenshots. This would use up some bandwidth, but it shouldn't be that bad at all. Perhaps we could do an auto-purging thing for these SS images after, say, 48 hours or whatever. This would help free up server-capacity space.
Who would look at this? I guess it takes a lot of free time. And it means , watching everybody's screenshots, so it's private, so not anyon could go for the job. And when assist implemented the SS system one of thhe arguments was 'they will only take ss if you're fishy'. That calmed down some players, but now it won't be the case anymore.
Don't take me wrong, it would be nice initiative, but good luck finding one of the admins to use his free time to do that
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Who would look at this? I guess it takes a lot of free time. And it means , watching everybody's screenshots, so it's private, so not anyon could go for the job. And when assist implemented the SS system one of thhe arguments was 'they will only take ss if you're fishy'. That calmed down some players, but now it won't be the case anymore.
Don't take me wrong, it would be nice initiative, but good luck finding one of the admins to use his free time to do that
Well, they don't have to actively monitor it. For example, if someone, anyone, suspects that someone is able to see them through the wall, they can simply go and check their screenshots on their own. Believe it or not; people will be inclined to check screenshots much more than you may think. And the ability to take manual screenshots IS a good thing, and it should be a calming thing, as manual screenshots are not algorithmic and predictably recursive.
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I think you have a good point there noofy, also you summarized the anti cheat systems well. I think this is a valid point for a good anti-cheat system.
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Well, they don't have to actively monitor it. For example, if someone, anyone, suspects that someone is able to see them through the wall, they can simply go and check their screenshots on their own. Believe it or not; people will be inclined to check screenshots much more than you may think. And the ability to take manual screenshots IS a good thing, and it should be a calming thing, as manual screenshots are not algorithmic and predictably recursive.
I was not talking bout 'people' in general, because those SS are private (not in game only). So I guess it's gonna be admin work to check those. And now they already have the possibility to do check on users, but they don't do it (no offence, just mentionning the fact that you admins are not 100% into the AC and that you have other stuff to do)
But if you can find someone, that you can trust, an that can check the SS, would be nice !
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... those SS are private (not in game only) ...
It's called espionage and is illegal...
Spanky@ once again - where is my post!!?
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I'm pretty sure you agree to it when installing and pressing "I accept". If you don't like Assist taking screenshots of the dirty/suspicious players, don't install it.
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I'm pretty sure you agree to it when installing and pressing "I accept". If you don't like Assist taking screenshots of the dirty/suspicious players, don't install it.
Don't worry, I don't have installed... :poorguy:
Anyways, Assist 'license' is not valid under the law - and thus, this button might as well not be there.
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Don't worry, I don't have installed... :poorguy:
Anyways, Assist 'license' is not valid under the law - and thus, this button might as well not be there.
Why do you believe it's not valid? If you want to play, you have to accept these rules. It's pretty simple. The purpose of the screenshots is to ensure that users of Assist are playing fairly, as all other people on Assist are legit and expecting others to be the same.
You mean to tell me that you believe it's OK for players to be able to load up hacks that modify assist and dismantle the leveled playing field? And we should clarify this notion that it's only for suspicious/dirty players. Rather, Assist can take screenshots of ALL players. If you install software that informs you that it will do this, it's up to you to decide whether you are OK with admins seeing you play the game, to ensure that you're playing fairly.
In this regard, essentially, Assist works just like any AC Client we've seen in the past. When we used AC Clients in competitions, it was connected to AA's files and loaded up AA, just like Assist does. Some of these clients were not only able to take screenshots, but were also keylogging players while on the client, a la CEVO's CMN3, and players agreed to this prior to engaging in matches while running the client/s. There were no 'legal' issues then, so why would there be legal issues now?
If you're coming from the angle about AA, itself, being copyrighted, modified by Assist, etc, then I guess I'll say that, as an American tax payer -- who, along with other American taxpayers, contributed to the development of this free game -- I'm OK with Assist keeping the game alive. I'm glad my tax dollars didn't go to complete waste and that I'm still able to play. More importantly, though, is how that angle has nothing to do with the "I Agree" button being illegal. Consider Teamviewer (http://www.teamviewer.com). With Teamviewer, two (or even more) people can consent to accessing the others' computers in many disparate fashions, even to the point of full control. If a person maliciously, and without consent, accessed a person's computer with Teamviewer, this person is breaking the law. Teamviewer, however, is not illegal. The same would apply in the case of Assist and its prerequisite agreement conditions.
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Anyways, Assist 'license' is not valid under the law - and thus, this button might as well not be there.
Many EULA/TOS documents don't hold up in court. That's not the point of ours though. The point is to spell out what Assist is, what it does, what we do with it and how you can/can't use it. Simple as that. We're not using it to hide behind.
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Many EULA/TOS documents don't hold up in court. That's not the point of ours though. The point is to spell out what Assist is, what it does, what we do with it and how you can/can't use it. Simple as that. We're not using it to hide behind.
Thats so true. No one is holding a gun to your head. You want to play the game they are working to keep alive you accept it and play or don't and you won't.
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How long can we talk about this? I think the answer is clear.
There are two buttons before you start installing assist. One is you ''ACCEPT'' with terms of conditions of Assist to take a screenshots from your desktop and there is ''DECLINE'' button which tells you, you don't accept with term of conditions via Assist.
The decision is clear, you play the game or you don't.
(I don't find anymore criteria for this ''Terms of Conditions'' law to play Assist. Whatever you say the decision is already made to stick with the current sample. Anyways it was a great try to convince admins to change it and to warn people but it didn't work as it seems, people do trust admins and their work and they don't hide anything which is great. Topic can be closed to prevent any further spam, but one thing I've to tell you, when polls are up, the MAJORITY of users must vote before the final decision is made.)
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Topic can be closed to prevent any further spam, but one thing I've to tell you, when polls are up, the MAJORITY of users must vote before the final decision is made.)
That would be all fine and dandy, but short of holding a gun to them and forcing them to come to the forums, most players won't come here unless they have a complaint. As I said before those of us who give a damn about this game come to the forums.
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... With Teamviewer, two (or even more) people can consent to accessing the others' computers in many disparate fashions, even to the point of full control. If a person maliciously, and without consent, accessed a person's computer with Teamviewer, this person is breaking the law. Teamviewer, however, is not illegal. The same would apply in the case of Assist and its prerequisite agreement conditions.
So, you say: gun is safe, only people who carry it are dangerous..? ...nonsense...
... Anyways it was a great try to convince admins to change it and to warn people but it didn't work as it seems...
I wasn't trying anything... It was the only answer to the stupid excuses. ... which don't change the fact, that the Assist is not a corporation and don't have legal rights - it's just a funs made app. Conclusions, pull yourself...
... but one thing I've to tell you, when polls are up, the MAJORITY of users must vote before the final decision is made.)
I'm all for it, but I don't think that you understand what that really mean. Currently, there are about 4479 members. majority means 66%, which gives us +2956 votes - second nonsense...
Stay with 66% of votes.
Apropos of closing this thread, I wrote a post a week ago, in which, among other things I asked about this the admins, but instead, they removed my post. Sill I want to know why..?
Anyways, now I like to keep this thread open until closing of poll, because it is getting more and more interesting.
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I understand you and I don't want that to happen too, but let's face it another way.
The best thing what admins could do is insert the poll into the ''Assist''. You know, some people may have trouble registering onto forum, may have other problems which way they can't contact from the higher grounds to help them. Maybe they don't understand the importance of their voting.
What would happen if we ''forced'' them to vote?
1. They would make their own decision and opinion on voting.
2. They would decide on the future of the poll, of its importance to the next update and so on.
3. If the poll was in assist. they wouldn't need to register on forum, they can use a BT account as long as they are logged in.
People just don't know how important is their decision. Do you guys know what happens when they don't know about anything? They just throw complains about the next update, why its that and whats that all about. If they are not forced then you put stones on your heads with full of reports about the updates and so on. Look at the current voting about AA3 map mission types..., what happens when majority doesn't vote? again full of complains because another half didn't vote and didn't throw their opinion out. They play the game and the game should be played for them and with their thoughts. Its just my opinion, I don't say to force them register on the forum, just do the voting because they play the game and are they going to be happy with the next polls decision?
And another thing, why admins don't just do the same with forum users like in the game? Admins could ban and delete users that are registered and banned as well as have more than one account. People who have more accounts on this forum must be deleted, keep only one and we see how many of the registered users left registered.
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Exactly, some time ago I was proposed the same. In my deleted by admins post I was talking about empty accounts, but guess what..? There is many things, which need to be changed, but nobody care...
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Exactly, some time ago I was proposed the same. In my deleted by admins post I was talking about empty accounts, but guess what..? There is many things, which need to be changed, but nobody care...
In which they see no point in doing it, as thinking it won't change anything and is a waste of time when I see this as a main purpose of struggling with the MAJORITY voting.
But you see we are only two and the rest just doesn't care...they see only one option to hunt and to finish the player that has cheated and the sad thing is that nobody is willing to give a second chance which proves to ''in what world we live in?'' ask yourself a question people. I would just offer for a fee of 20$ or more for a second chance, people would pay just to play the game, this way they would pay to assist rather to the cheat app. $20 is just an example, of course the price would be up for admins decision. You want donations? There you go, a good way to get them.
P.S Not here to defend any hackers but if you were in their shoes you would want a second chance.
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Currently, there are about 4479 members.
Again, a lot of those are accounts that are old (we should purge them) so you won't get anywhere near that many people on here. Look at the player charts, we have less than 1000 unique account logins a day (some people have multiple accounts). Being realistic, 66% would probably be somewhere around 500. But then you gotta remember that not everybody knows about this site and there are plenty of people that don't speak english and would have a hard time understanding what's going on here.
I do agree though that the amount of votes here is pathetic but what can we do short of adding voting to Assist (which we are talking about)? This site has been around way too long and spammed on way too many forums to still have people that don't know about it. That's how it is though. Think about all the games you play, do you go to the developer forums every day to keep up on what's going on? Most people don't.
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Again, a lot of those are accounts that are old (we should purge them) so you won't get anywhere near that many people on here. Look at the player charts, we have less than 1000 unique account logins a day (some people have multiple accounts). Being realistic, 66% would probably be somewhere around 500. But then you gotta remember that not everybody knows about this site and there are plenty of people that don't speak english and would have a hard time understanding what's going on here.
I do agree though that the amount of votes here is pathetic but what can we do short of adding voting to Assist (which we are talking about)? This site has been around way too long and spammed on way too many forums to still have people that don't know about it. That's how it is though. Think about all the games you play, do you go to the developer forums every day to keep up on what's going on? Most people don't.
So poll in assist would be not worthy? You can do polls in couple languages or as with many as you like in assist using someone to translate or just using google translator..., I don't understand how is it hard to implement voting on assist? I think they would see it, the people who log in, if the box would appear with the voting system they would be quickly forced to vote and give their opinion. I think this is the best solution of voting is through assist not the website. And it is not enough to say come for more updates www.aao25.com etc, they can't be bothered opening internet and writing that stuff down, registering and so on.
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everyone downloads the same game ,and anyone that is putting stuff in the .ini folder that doesn't belong in there ,is trying to find a loophole to cheat running a bought hack/cheat for any amount at all you really think these people care if they have to spend another $20 bux to play the game ? as far as i understand what your saying here is you basicly invite cheaters / hackers back in a game for a small fee ?just to help out? if im not mistaken Sergio made a post a while back about how to or what to change in the settings ,that is for everyone,but that aint inserting cheats or hacks in the game cause that is just adjusting sertend settings without putting extra stuff in the game itself ,i might not of written everything correctly but i dont see any reason to give or let a cheater keep playing or playing the game again by paying a fee
In which they see no point in doing it, as thinking it won't change anything and is a waste of time when I see this as a main purpose of struggling with the MAJORITY voting.
But you see we are only two and the rest just doesn't care...they see only one option to hunt and to finish the player that has cheated and the sad thing is that nobody is willing to give a second chance which proves to ''in what world we live in?'' ask yourself a question people. I would just offer for a fee of 20$ or more for a second chance, people would pay just to play the game, this way they would pay to assist rather to the cheat app. $20 is just an example, of course the price would be up for admins decision. You want donations? There you go, a good way to get them.
P.S Not here to defend any hackers but if you were in their shoes you would want a second chance.
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So poll in assist would be not worthy? You can do polls in couple languages or as with many as you like in assist using someone to translate or just using google translator..., I don't understand how is it hard to implement voting on assist? I think they would see it, the people who log in, if the box would appear with the voting system they would be quickly forced to vote and give their opinion. I think this is the best solution of voting is through assist not the website. And it is not enough to say come for more updates www.aao25.com etc, they can't be bothered opening internet and writing that stuff down, registering and so on.
One problem I have yet to solve is how to prevent abuse and keep the votes in 1 location. If we start a poll here, Assist would have to pass the vote to AAO25. Those more devious than I could likely find ways to abuse my code as I'm not a master of PHP. Another problem is that ELiZ mentioned it's easy to render a webpage in Assist but interacting with it is another story. A vote could be submitted via $_[GET] but again, this leaves potential for abuse. We would have to find some way of passing the BTID to make votes unique. The logistics of voting in Assist will prove to be a hassle. Not that it can't be done, it's just a matter of doing it properly.
An easy solution might be to just omit AAO25 from polls and people vote in Assist and the votes stay on the auth server. It would be nice to have interaction with AAO25 though.
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you really think these people care if they have to spend another $20 bux to play the game ? as far as i understand what your saying here is you basicly invite cheaters / hackers back in a game for a small fee ?
It was an example, I didn't offered $20, of course more. I guess you didn't pay attention to my post at all.
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test (https://aao25.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fscaled%2Fthumb%2F716%2F3yp3.png&hash=9eb9ef078b7dec118edcb12f8e3e9836) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/716/3yp3.png/)
When i puth info on my clan facebook about assist i see they look to it and sumtimes we have a little writing about it. solong they can play there is for the biggest group no reason to come here.
To wake sumbuddy you need negative ore super possitieve changes for the players Like :
New topic: Mandatory dues to play
New topic: Assist wil only be open in weekends
New topic: Only 1 server A clan
New topic: sex tape from Spanky whit paris hilton is publiek! on assist. :shock:
You can call it confidence for the existing group called admin assist
and when it is quiet, it means people are satisfied.
So a small group assist admins and a few members represent ideas and changes.
66% looks like you have to do it whit actieve forum members and admins
Again, a lot of those are accounts that are old (we should purge them) so you won't get anywhere near that many people on here. Look at the player charts, we have less than 1000 unique account logins a day (some people have multiple accounts). Being realistic, 66% would probably be somewhere around 500. But then you gotta remember that not everybody knows about this site and there are plenty of people that don't speak english and would have a hard time understanding what's going on here.
I do agree though that the amount of votes here is pathetic but what can we do short of adding voting to Assist (which we are talking about)? This site has been around way too long and spammed on way too many forums to still have people that don't know about it. That's how it is though. Think about all the games you play, do you go to the developer forums every day to keep up on what's going on? Most people don't.
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When i puth info on my clan facebook about assist i see they look to it and sumtimes we have a little writing about it. solong they can play there is for the biggest group no reason to come here.
To wake sumbuddy you need negative ore super possitieve changes for the players Like :
New topic: Mandatory dues to play
New topic: Assist wil only be open in weekends
New topic: Only 1 server A clan
New topic: sex tape from Spanky whit paris hilton is publiek! on assist. :shock:
You can call it confidence for the existing group called admin assist
and when it is quiet, it means people are satisfied.
So a small group assist admins and a few members represent ideas and changes.
66% looks like you have to do it whit actieve forum members and admins
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I give up
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I propose we try a different angle on this topic. It has been made evident that people have several takes on what it may constitute to hack in this game and what type of consequences those who've performed such an act should undergo. However, instead of letting the focus remain on the construction/deconstruction and justification of each other's opinions, I'd like to suggest that we go back a few notches and take a simpler approach.
In a summarised and objective way, come up with a list of Pros and Cons for the following scenarios:
1. Player Hacks and is given a Second Change.
2. Player Hacks and is given a Punishment (i.e:. Hacker Tag, Pay a certain amount of money, etc)
3. Player Hacks and is permanently banned.
Refer to the following when listing the pros and cons:
- Consequences for the individual.
- Consequences for the community.
- What is gained by whichever option.
- What is lost by whichever option.
- Status-quo aggravation in whichever option.
Meanwhile, to clear some other things that have been mentioned up before:
NoBigDeal: Your post has not been deleted. SMF keeps track of all and any moderation activity. Trashed/deleted posts are also archived into a specific board. I have looked around and none of your posts has been --even at the slightest-- touched. If anything, it could so be that case that one of your posts was not approved (for restricted boards). Since the revamp of the forum, I went through the trouble of looking through all of the unapproved replies and approved them all. Your theory is not met with factual proof.
Assist's TOA...is not in any way illegal. The only clause to the legality of our TOA is that we retain permission to view & use the collected data for anti-cheat purposes. If the integral legality of our TOA was to be reviewed by respective Law Entities, we'd be obligated to disclose the ability to use the collected data in any way or form and would be forced to archive it with some sort of high-level encryption for safety reasons. However...before I speak any further on this matter, let us please situate ourselves in today's 'privacy' situation spanning out and about:
- Google collects data from you.
- Facebook collects data from you.
- Apple collects data from you.
- Windows collects data from you.
- Credit/Debit Cards collect data from you.
- Telecommunications Operators collect data from you.
- Your ISP collects data from you.
Need I say more? Some of the above aren't even a case of "I Agree" or "I Disagree" --some of them are simply forced unto you. If we're to bitch about a honest, clear and up-front TOA such as the one Assist has then I'll have to find myself nicely ask that you first shut down your internet, stop using your debit/credit cards, cut access to your phone and only then...will the slightest attempt at bitching gain that tenth more of sense.
/Dan
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1.Your 'summarised and objective way' - there is nothing new.
2. The existence of this post is no longer valid, because the subject was discussed again. But (not questioning your competence ...) if you really want to know, ask Spanky, he replied to this post.
3. You're wrong Assist's TOA / privacy - but this is not the place and time...
Last thing: why if something goes wrong, I see always on this forum the same solution:
'...shut down your internet, stop using your debit/credit cards, cut access to your phone...'
...or:
if 'something' (there is many of those...), then 'don't agrre'/'don't play'/'don't install'/'uninstall'
When you (all) finally understand, that this does not resolve the problem / situation - it will cause only rage...
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I'm not saying "Uninstall" --I am simply saying "There are other things you take usage of every day that do as much as Assist does in terms of collecting data. Why is then Assist deserving of so much moaning?"
If this does not resolve the problem as you've put it then why don't we all try to get to a solution then? I'm all ears. That's why I comment/participate in the community/forum. If I didn't care, I'd simply ignore it and resume my posting activity to either new updates and/or the private area of the forum.
Instead of placing me or any other Admin for that matter --as the target to shoot down; why not accept that we're all here to attempt at making this game better for everyone and create a nice little happy community? That is all there is to it. I'm sorry if it seemed any other way, really.
/Dan
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One problem I have yet to solve is how to prevent abuse and keep the votes in 1 location. If we start a poll here, Assist would have to pass the vote to AAO25. Those more devious than I could likely find ways to abuse my code as I'm not a master of PHP. Another problem is that ELiZ mentioned it's easy to render a webpage in Assist but interacting with it is another story. A vote could be submitted via $_[GET] but again, this leaves potential for abuse. We would have to find some way of passing the BTID to make votes unique. The logistics of voting in Assist will prove to be a hassle. Not that it can't be done, it's just a matter of doing it properly.
An easy solution might be to just omit AAO25 from polls and people vote in Assist and the votes stay on the auth server. It would be nice to have interaction with AAO25 though.
I'd guess the vote could stay on the auth server, but the vote on Assist could have a link to the forum topic, which has the discussion (not necessarily the votes).
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... If this does not resolve the problem as you've put it then why don't we all try to get to a solution then?...
That's exactly what i'm trying to do ...
... but stay on topic.