Forum

Killaman, Ukraine doesn't belong to NATO, not for now. Ukraine belongs on food exportation with Europe. NATO sent soldiers only to NATO countries, Baltic countries of fear being attacked by Russia. NATO is in Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Poland, Moldova. Europe gives sanctions to Russia but they can't do anything unless Russia attacks one of the allies, but Ukraine is not an allies of NATO so NATO will not defend Ukraine.

He knows this, but the current Ukraine government is friendly with nato so any russian strike against the country will prompt a response from nato. Whether or not nato will defend Ukraine is unclear really, too much is at stake for anyone to jump the gun.

Russia isn't dumb enough. That was my point.

Dumb enought to shoot down a fking civilian plane !

It happens when you led growing up kids that think they can handle rockets and think they feel important. Like my text : real war is to a game.  For alot its game over, and that for all war's we don't want them.

Well reports say it wasn't russia themselves but the pro russian rebels that shot it down. Those are just reports though, we really have no idea what actually happened.

Well it really depends on who you ask, for as much as I've read, either party blames the other.

Well the US says they intercepted communications of russia sending the rebels an Anti aircraft system.

The US also said iraq had chemical weapons.

The US also said iraq had chemical weapons.

I never said it was true (although if I had to bet, I would bet on it being true), I merely said what they stated. If you would refer to my previous post, I said we really have no idea what actually happened.

It is deeply upsetting that this conflict has taken with it the lives of the innocent foreign civilians which had nothing to do with the dispute itself, and which could be the cause of someone's political reason.

Also, I just wanted to explain the situation a bit clearer to whomever is interested, than they do in the often biased news. I follow the unrest regularly since combat began in the region of eastern Ukraine, in which I know people and have relatives.
1) Why was the plane flying through a war zone?
Ukraine's air traffic control together with Malaysian airlines agreed on this path to save fuel. It wouldn't have been a bad idea if it wasn't for the fact that Ukraine's military had a plane shot just a few days before, presumably by rebels, who were also believed to have the missile system 'BUK'. So why take such a risk in the first place?
2) Ukraine or Russia?
Many newspapers from the UK claimed that it was the work of Putin on the very first day, before any evidence from an investigation. (http://cs619931.vk.me/v619931145/d55f/Li9p_SlRYMg.jpg) This seams like pure propaganda. The phone conversation which Ukraine's security services provided could be real. But nobody knows yet, as voice recording can be fabricated (they do this all the time in movies). It's also strange the fact that the dialog consists of 3 separate conversations.
3) 'BUK' missile system
While the rebels are believed to be in possession of this vehicle, it is not possible to know if it's in working order or not. Besides it requires another vehicle with a target acquisition radar 'TAR' in order to lock onto the target and the rebels don't have it (no evidence yet). But there could be a possibility that Russia's TAR provided this information, but could still be positioned across the border. Again no undeniable evidence yet, but for one, Ukraine definitely has the entire complex.

There is currently no clear details and it might be some time before the responsible are pinpointed. For now lets just wait until further evidence is discovered and a thorough investigation of this horrific tragedy has been conducted. For future, whatever you do don't listen to one news outlet, follow a variety to get the full picture.

I honestly doubt we will ever know who did it for sure. All evidence is circumstantial and both sides will blame each other for it.