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Author Topic: Global Warming - What's your opinion?  (Read 8522 times)

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Offline Spanky

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Global Warming - What's your opinion?
« on: Monday, December 14, 2009, 03:13:51 AM »
The below is a friendly conversation between me and Delta. It's not meant to start an argument over who knows more or what thoughts/opinions/facts are real or not. It simply is here to make you think and get involved and to voice your opinion. No bashing or hate please, otherwise I'll have to start a bash thread for something you are passionate about.

Quote
[23:51] delta: I can't believe Google is taking part in this stuff
[23:51] delta: http://www.google.com/landing/cop15/
[23:51] Spanky: cuz it's all bs
[23:52] delta: yeah, and it's going to be really bad for all of use if these guys get what they want
[23:52] Spanky: we've been through this and im not gonna discuss it again unless you want to be enlightened
[23:52] delta: us*
[23:52] delta: Did you say you support it?
[23:53] Spanky: you're going to have to be a little more clear about what it is
[23:53] delta: I guess in this case it's global warming
[23:53] Spanky: do you really want to discuss it with me?
[23:54] delta: I just want to know if you support it
[23:55] Spanky: im not a scientist nor do i have the time, knowledge nor money to research it for myself to determine if i believe in it or not
[23:55] Spanky: im on the fence with "global warming"
[23:56] Spanky: i do know for a fact that we manufacture, use, eat, and waste un-necessary amounts of various pollutants that are harmful to the environment
[23:56] Spanky: i really don't care about global warming, i may not be alive to see it happen if it does. i just simply don't want to eat or breathe pollutants
[23:57] delta: Right, I agree with you there. but to go as far as to say it's heating the world up, and if we keep it up we'll all die is a little wrong
[23:59] Spanky: is it? a lot of scientists believe that they have real evidence. who's to say they do or dont? you don't have evidence in god and our whole country is surrounded by religous beliefs yet i don't think that's wrong
[23:59] Spanky: well... i kinda fubar'd that last statement
[00:00] Spanky: i do think it's wrong but here's the thing: i don't tell people they're wrong and try to bash it or publically attempt to prove that it's wrong
[00:01] Spanky: think of global warming as an excuse deadline. lets get rid of the pollutants asap regaurdless if global warming is going to happen or not. our habits need to change asap
[00:02] delta: right, but at what cost? we just can't change everything over night
[00:03] delta: what would we change to?
[00:03] delta: if there was something better out there we would be using it
[00:04] Spanky: at what cost is a valid point except i'm going to twist it. we don't have a choice in the air we breathe or really the food we eat, for most of us it's out of our hands. we need to put money aside, granted things can cost a lot but the reasons we're using oil so much is that we're used to it and it's cheap. does that make it valid for us to poison ourselves in various ways?

What do you think?
It's like shaving your pubes to make your junk look bigger.
Might look bigger, but it aint.....

-Delta-

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Re: Global Warming - What's your opinion?
« Reply #1 on: Monday, December 14, 2009, 03:22:32 AM »
What else can we use to power our cars besides oil, electricity? If we use electricity it has to be made by some coal or nuclear plant somewhere that causes just as much damage as driving a car using oil. Don't get me wrong, I think we need an alternative to oil, I just don't think we should be affected in the process of getting that alternative.

Offline Spanky

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Re: Global Warming - What's your opinion?
« Reply #2 on: Monday, December 14, 2009, 03:41:43 AM »
In a perfect world, people would give up some "luxuries" in order to help this situation. Fact is Americans are a lot of the problem. Other developing nations see what we have and will go to any length to have it themselves, no matter the cost and I'm not talking money. We need to lead by example. I don't know what the answer is to vehicles. Ethanol is a time waster and we'll have fuel for our cars but no food on the table. Hydrogen is easily made by natural gas and still too expensive to readily implement. Hybrids may be a start but they have a hell of a long way to go before they'll do anything. I saw a hybrid Suburban (full-size SUV for those who don't know) that the electric motor only went up to 17mph. I can imagine it cutting down on emissions since it takes a lot of energy to change the state of any object but 17mph? That's ridiculous. Couldn't the engineers gotten it to maybe 20 or 25 for people driving in residential areas? I mean... come on. Ill-purposed residential/commute vehicles aside (SUV's, Trucks), there have been several fully electric cars that were produced both by companies and individual parties. If they can make them happen then what's the problem? Vehicles that run further than the average suburban (not car) work commute that have 0 emissions (from the car, electricity production will be covered later) that you can charge at home? Maybe the government could offer a tax break for businesses to install charging stations in the parking lot.

Electricity production (told you I'd get to it :D) is another hard subject. We all over-use electricity when we don't have to and I believe that problem should be solved before trying to get an alternative source of electricity because I believe we can reduce oil/coal/nuclear usage more by reducing our usage than researching or implementing an alternative form of electricity.

I'm kinda spent as far as providing an argument on this subject right now and would like to see others getting involved so I'll sit back a few posts.
It's like shaving your pubes to make your junk look bigger.
Might look bigger, but it aint.....

-Delta-

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Re: Global Warming - What's your opinion?
« Reply #3 on: Monday, December 14, 2009, 04:17:01 AM »
Well, it may be America's fault, I guess we do kinda lead the way in some stuff. But to say that I should be responsible for the research of alternative sources of fuel is wrong. I mean, maybe if I had a million dollars I could invest into it. Then I could be held somewhat responsible, but I don't. I guess you could say the greedy oil companies are to blame, but the only way to set them right is with more government regulations, which aren't so good when it comes down to the whole free market thing.

Maybe the whole "Global Warming" thing is just a scare tactic to get people to see that we need change. Maybe these people really believe the world is gonna become a burning ball of fire if we don't act now, I don't know. I just know I don't want the government to tell me how much power I'm allowed a day, or how many miles I'm allowed to drive a day. I don't know if it would ever come down to that, but if people get scared enough, I know they're probably going drop freedoms for security.

Offline Spanky

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Re: Global Warming - What's your opinion?
« Reply #4 on: Monday, December 14, 2009, 04:28:37 AM »
I just know I don't want the government to tell me how much power I'm allowed a day, or how many miles I'm allowed to drive a day. I don't know if it would ever come down to that, but if people get scared enough, I know they're probably going drop freedoms for security.

See there's a hazy part in the whole freedom thing. I would be ok with you using as much power/oil as you wanted if the consequences ONLY affected you. It's the same thing with smokers, I would be perfectly happy if absolutely no "used" (2nd hand) smoke was emitted into the air I breathe. Totally fine if they want to kill themselves, hell I might even light it for them but when it infringes on MY life when it's absolutely un-necessary for THEIR life, is that right? Is that what freedom means? Shit if that's what it means, I gotta find a new country without freedom to call home :) I can imagine someone bringing up the argument that 2nd hand smoke and using excessive amounts of electricity aren't equal. Well, in the current world, they are. They both emit pollutants. What does global warming matter when some people have to breathe this:



I tried to find an image from a non-tree-hugging/green group. I think I did alright. Click on the picture to read the article that was posted in.
It's like shaving your pubes to make your junk look bigger.
Might look bigger, but it aint.....

-Delta-

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Re: Global Warming - What's your opinion?
« Reply #5 on: Monday, December 14, 2009, 05:22:00 AM »
I don't know a lot about the climate out there in LA. But there are some days here in Missouri where the humidity will make it look almost exactly like that picture. I'm not saying that there isn't some pollution there, I mean you put that many people in one small spot on the earth and you're bound to get something going wrong. People have a choice in all of this, though, they don't have to live in a city that has really bad air pollution. America is a big place you know.  :)

I'm not saying this isn't a problem, I believe when you burn gasoline you put off emissions that are bad for humans. And I think it would be awesome to have a fuel that's not only powerful but actually good for you too. I just really don't think the government is the answer to our problems. But you know, maybe some regulation on the oil companies to do some research into alternative fuel sources wouldn't be all that bad. I mean why should they take home millions while all we get is dirty oil?

Offline Spanky

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Re: Global Warming - What's your opinion?
« Reply #6 on: Monday, December 14, 2009, 06:03:51 AM »
I know, especially with digital cameras and todays photo editing software, it's easy to change colors but there is a color difference between steam/fog and smoke/pollutants. Granted, a lot of plain old dust is probably floating around but on the other hand we're meant to breathe oxygen, not dust, not car exhaust, not smoke. Actually (from logical thinking) I think that's one of the sad things about the green movement in that a lot of the videos and images they show of tall towers pumping out "pollution" when the majority of it is probably steam or water vapor.

But you know, maybe some regulation on the oil companies to do some research into alternative fuel sources wouldn't be all that bad. I mean why should they take home millions while all we get is dirty oil?

It would be in the governments best interest to do something along those lines. Give em a tax break and in return make them put 2% of their profits or so into alternative energy. I wouldn't be surprised if this is being done already though. I would like to see government control on electricity and oil usage per person but on the other hand that would strike up some protests and riots and it would eventually get counter-productive. Maybe instead an incentive for individual people to do more environmentally good things. We see some of this already, I think there were tax breaks or rebates for those that bought Energy Star appliances. I'm sure that could be taken further.

Just like everything in the world, oil is a limited resource, there's no arguing that. The question is how limited and we don't know. Oil doesn't just make gas for your car. It makes many other useful products that you don't even think of. If we run out, it's gonna mean more than not being able to start our cars. This is a great argument to recycle. Recycling isn't necessarily about being easier on the environment than to use raw materials (a lot of people argue this point and I'm on the fence about it) it's about re-using the materials we have instead of packing them away in landfills that nobody is going to want to dig through when we're all out of plastic. Now I don't want to sound frantic but hell, I'm sure it's possible in some amount of years to have a shortage if we keep this wasteful practice up.

Ok, I'm really gonna lay off for a while and let other people voice out.
It's like shaving your pubes to make your junk look bigger.
Might look bigger, but it aint.....

-Delta-

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Re: Global Warming - What's your opinion?
« Reply #7 on: Monday, December 14, 2009, 08:01:34 AM »
The words "Government Control" just give me a bad feeling. For one the government rarely does anything right. So to give them control would be bad.

I believe government regulations on things like power usage and gasoline usage would be bad for everybody. Especially if they taxed you on how many miles you drive or something. Which would throw more of our privacy rights out the window when they try an keep track of everything you do. Which just fuels the big government movement even more. When pretty soon you realize you have no control over anything anymore. Because you gave it all away to the government, just so they could protect you against excessive drivers, or people who might burn more power than the regular guy. That's not the way to go.

If anything we need more common sense and less government in this country.

This country is already 13 TRILLION dollars in debt (or soon to be) if that doesn't worry you, then you need to get your head checked. Some of that debt is held by counties like Russia and China, now I don't have anything against these countries. I'm a little worried what they'll do when our debt has risen to 50 trillion, and they stop receiving their paychecks because our interest payments have become more than we can afford. For example, since Obama has taken office we have accumulated 2 trillion dollars in debt. Now for us being so rich and all, how is it we have the biggest debt of any country out there? And what do you think more government regulation is going to cost us?

I think, unless pollution becomes a dire threat to this country, the US Government should just stay out of it. Maybe save a few bucks in the process, and pay off a little debt.

Offline Dialects

Re: Global Warming - What's your opinion?
« Reply #8 on: Monday, December 14, 2009, 09:27:07 AM »
This thread is -supposedly- about Global Warming and yet you've converted into a semi-governmental applicative discussion about The United States of America? Self-centered ignorant pricks. I was going to write just a few lines about the consequences of this traditional behavior that lies within most Americans, but I don't think going over that would be helpful or constructive to this post subject's, so I've decided to drop out. You guys already did a great job off-coursing this thread's subject by the miles, along with turning it into a US-exclusive likewise.

When discussing Global Warming, we need to understand that science is trustworthy. It might not make much sense -be irrelevant, excruciate our minds with mathematically well-put new fearsome "software" onto our society's consensus- but it is something that attests to human's most finest logical thinking. For the most part, the problem lies within how new theories are purged and accepted -through ignorance- onto our society's minds, which seem to have been proved as the easiest of the ways to naturally change the course of society terms, actions, delusions, demands, needs and likewise.

We are divided into two big groups; "The Wise and the Ignorant", which in nowadays's words would be far more accurately named as "The Informed and The Uninformed". Information is everywhere, at the cost of nothing. Much of it is nonsense, or built on a lot unnecessary theory-crap people are ignorant about, nor care to become otherwise. The whole point behind this brief slander on Human Thinking and Society Mindset served to reveal that ignorance is strongly acclaimed in and by our society. It's a favorite. Metaphorically speaking, a-made guest of honor on the houses we no longer own or have control of. Ignorance is the key-word.

So, what exactly is Global Warming? It certainly is not as much of a science as we make it out to be. I don't quite have the time to expand on my views at the moment, but I will give you a link to a video I wholeheartedly respect and admire -if anything- for the way they break down the arguments long being used by Global Warming parties and Green Projects likewise.

In a small note, I can vouch for some of the stated in the video I am about to show, as I have had Chemistry classes and had the opportunity to test Air properties, it's consequence reactions to changes made on its core, and many other I'll gladly proceed to talk about as I get home afterwork. Meanwhile, if you truly are interested in discussing about Global Warming without going over who's got more power over it (Yes, a hint for both my friends Nate and Dan!), then I strongly suggest you watch the following video, entirely.




Dann
"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his." - George S. Patton

Offline Spanky

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Re: Global Warming - What's your opinion?
« Reply #9 on: Monday, December 14, 2009, 16:36:46 PM »
The subject unfortunately does take a turn to involve the Government because this is really something that everybody should be involved in. The uninformed and lazy (typical american) isn't and that becomes a problem. There are many times when people don't do what is ethically or morally best and we have laws because of that. I'm not all for full government but we need something to give us a little push in the right direction. Then comes up the area that who defines what is ethically or morally right, I think in this situation it's pretty clear that we shouldn't have to live with pollution just because people like to drive an hour to work in stop and go traffic.

As for what Dann has posted, I got 3 seconds into the video and see 2 negative points:
The guy's avatar
The video looks like a shock video meant to scare people

With that said, I will finish the video and post back if it enlightens me.
It's like shaving your pubes to make your junk look bigger.
Might look bigger, but it aint.....

Offline BlueBlaster

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Re: Global Warming - What's your opinion?
« Reply #10 on: Monday, December 14, 2009, 21:13:56 PM »
People are like inertia, they arn't going anywhere so they won't move.



-Delta-

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Re: Global Warming - What's your opinion?
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday, December 15, 2009, 00:38:01 AM »
Who is driving the whole global warming movement? Where did it begin? I know Al Gore and Co. are big on it. But who actually started the whole thing? And what did they base their theories on?

Like in that video Dann posted you have scientists tell you plan and simple that global warming is fake. It's something the media invented, for who knows what reason. But the fact remains that this isn't a good thing. If global warming truly is real, then I guess we have nothing to worry about. But if it's fake, then we just destroyed our economy for no reason trying to throw things like oil out the window.

I don't know numbers here so I can't conform or deny this. But if pollution is a threat to peoples lives, then we should try our bests to try an clean up the air. Our history is too short to really tell much, like if increased pollution causes an increase in cancer related deaths and all. I for one would like to die from old age, rather than some cancer I picked up while I was inhaling the air in California. But you don't see pollution being the issue here, you see global warming. Don't ask me why, I guess a global temperature increase of 1°C is too much for most people to handle.

Offline Spanky

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Re: Global Warming - What's your opinion?
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday, December 15, 2009, 00:42:44 AM »
This is pointless.
It's like shaving your pubes to make your junk look bigger.
Might look bigger, but it aint.....

-Delta-

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Re: Global Warming - What's your opinion?
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday, December 15, 2009, 00:54:09 AM »
This is pointless.

Yeah, that's the attitude Spanky!

Offline Spanky

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Re: Global Warming - What's your opinion?
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday, December 15, 2009, 01:18:04 AM »
I want to flame you so much, but I'm really above that. I'll just say that you have no idea what I meant by that and you never will.

Let the conversation continue between those that wish to be part of it.
It's like shaving your pubes to make your junk look bigger.
Might look bigger, but it aint.....

 

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