Forum

I do like being on these forums for good non-AA discussions with nice people, I'll admit that. But these types of discussions are the ones I'm hoping to take and grow on GamingRevised.com

Unfortunately I've got to give a thumbs down for your headphones. Typically any "gamer" product is a no-go. LCD monitors for gamers have fast refresh times but they all use TN panels and their color isn't as good as it could be. Gamer mice have a lot of buttons, weird designs and lights but not a lot of ergonomics. Same for keyboards. Sound equipment is no different.

Regular headphones have a hard time competing with speakers because the drivers just aren't large enough and they are only 1-way which means 1 driver has a hard time keeping up with the dynamics of audio. A great example of this is when I had my speakers apart and was playing some music. I then tried to feed it a 20hz signal while playing music but the 20hz never came through because the music was a much higher frequency and my woofer just couldn't make both sounds. Really, 3-way speakers are where dynamics really come in. So, with normal headphones only having 1 tiny driver to produce audio, how can surround headphones be anything but worse with 2-3 drivers per cup? The drivers have to be smaller. Not to mention too, the price point for surround headphones from what I've seen is $100-$150. That's the same price as introductory audiophile headphones. To be tossing in extra drivers and a microphone at the same price, they couldn't ever compete with real quality headphones. They might compete with $40-$50 headphones but obviously gamers will choose one with a built-in mic and think that they need 5.1 for better directional audio.

With good headphones and speakers, you can hear exactly where people are. You don't need multi-channel audio. As a very generic and blanket statement, multi-channel audio doesn't have as good of products as stereo does. There are setups where you get an expensive 5.1 or 7.1 receiver and add speakers of your choice but the question of how much good can you fit into a box comes around. The 5.1 and 7.1 receivers are jammed full of equipment and it's difficult to get good wattage output, maybe 100-150 watts per channel on 7 speakers. Not to mention a lot of the cheaper $300-$400 receivers simply die within a few years of use because they're built cheaply. Multi-channel audio is fun to play with but not nearly as practical and affordable as stereo audio.

Hopefully this explains a few things, I know I ran around the subject a bit, I typed it in-between phone calls with customers. Busy morning -_-

bind 7 shot

^^ Use it in-game then upload to a host that doesn't resize images.

I said "I would wager". That's not assuming, it's betting. Am I wrong? I'm not really sure why you're getting bent out of shape.

I have decided to finally get some good audio stuff and I remember you linking a relatively cheap (around $130) USB DAC in one of your posts but I dont feel like searching the forum for the post. Do you by any chance remember what it was? I was thinking about pairing it with a pair of Sennheiser HD-280 PRO Headphones

Those look like good headphones to start. The USB DAC I probably recommneded was one of the NuForce units, uDAC I think. You might also check out the FIIO products, specifically the E10. There's a review thread here:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/575084/impression-fiio-e10
In that thread there's comparisons to similar products.

Keep in mind they're meant to be cheap & small units, they're not going to be as good as a $300 desktop box. It's a good way to taste the quality of something dedicated without spending too much. If you like it, you can upgrade further.

You said you "could probably not tell a difference" so that's saying you haven't heard quality before. See, you're bypassing a fair bit of the analog bullshit in your X-Fi which is good but I would wager your 7.1 system is likely 7 1" tweeters and a 10" or so subwoofer which will have very bloated bass and treble and highly recessed mids. I'd guess it's a boxed setup made by Creative or Logitech, not a real 7.1 system with a receiver and 2-way or 3-way speakers for each channel.

I don't see how this game is the one single hope for the continuation of PC gaming... you're ignoring other genres and games. Perhaps you're talking serious competition in which case I know nothing about and will continue to give no fucks about. You don't need serious competition to keep games alive, you simply need people that enjoy the game and actually play it. Simple.

Think of a product in it's basic elements. A laptop is meant to be portable and because of that, it will never run as cool, fast or cheaply as a desktop computer. Corners are cut.

A gaming sound card like the X-Fi is typically meant for multi-channel audio output as well as hardware acceleration of audio (totally useless feature for anyone with a dual core or faster computer) and weird equalizer tweaks that 95% of users don't know how to use properly (i.e. don't use them). X-Fi cards are the cheapest way to get multi-channel analog audio out of your computer with gamer features.

The first no-no is the DAC chip the X-Fi uses. DAC chips have one job, to convert the digital audio signal into an analog signal that can be fed to speakers/headphones. DAC chips are semiconductors and how efficient their circuitry is affects how good the conversion is. The DAC chip in the X-Fi is a cheap multi-channel DAC that doesn't typically have a wide dynamic range and may muddle the sound if it's fed too much audio or too dynamic audio. DAC chips evolve almost as fast as CPU chips do. 10-15 years ago a DAC chip that might have cost thousands is worthless today. You can take this and realize that onboard audio isn't as bad as it used to be. A lot of newer boards have better or as good DAC chips as X-Fi cards.

The second no-no is the components. Capacitors, resistors, opamps and more. If Creative used quality components, you likely wouldn't be able to afford it. Quality capacitors cost money. There are some botique old Russian military caps that can fetch hundreds of dollars. Those aren't necessary for quality audio but it just shows that there's quite a bit to improve upon with a 1-cent capacitor. Affordable quality ones can cost $1-$5 depending on the type. Resistors run a little cheaper. Opamps are quite similar to DAC chips. Basically, they are a little chip that amplifies a signal; operational amplifier. They can vastly affect quality of audio. Can you guess if Creative used quality ones or cheap ones? Fact: A lot of the better sounding dedicated DAC units don't use opamps at all.



X-Fi sound cards are popular because of misinformation. Companies will always say their product is great, Creative is no exception. X-Fi cards were pretty decent back in the days of BF2, FEAR and a few other games around 2003-2005. Single core CPU's were all we had and offloading audio processing did improve FPS. The problem is, the technology never went anywhere because CPU's went all multi-core. Differences back in the day were maybe 5-10%, these days you would be lucky if you noticed it at all. So, they're low quality, horrible support and no real benefits of usage. Why are they popular? Gamers use a lot of products that have no real purpose, just look at crazy mouse pads, weird looking computer cases, flashing lights, headsets that make them look like they're in a military control room.

So what do you use? There are decent sound cards but their price is pretty out there. Brands like ASUS Xonar and Auzentech have decent ones but to get anything good, you need to go external. USB is where most audiophiles get their audio. One reason to use something external is to make sure your audio components don't use the dirty power generated by the switching power supply in your computer. Sure there's great quality computer power supplies but they're rated for longevity and amperage and reliability, not for a clean signal. Look up R-Core and Torridal power supplies. There's tons of DAC boxes out there and the market is constantly changing, there's tons of "flavor of the month" units and there's quite a few reliable brands. It takes a lot of research and a bit of saving to pull the trigger on your first setup.






I'm kinda running out of steam... it's hot and I dunno what else to say. If you have any specific questions, I can try to help. Look down in this forum a few posts; check out "What makes an excellent sound card" if you've got the time.

There's a bunch of these threads already on this site, do a search and find the info we've posted in them to troubleshoot your problem.