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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bass_reflex
Right, exactly what early 70's JBL speakers had. You're talking pure shit.

Yeah I couldn't remember that it was on the early 70's, but I knew they already had that bass reflex port, what I was saying is that all kinds of technology they invented to get better sounds, are always used in any kind of audio system, no matter if it has crap components or good components.

Listening to him is like looking at car audio specs claiming 5000watts of peak power written in bright red and other stupid shit. So the dude installs the lowest quality Gemini speakers that are at the same level as Pyle. Your pro audio buddy will know what I'm talking about. The dude claims he did so many "pro" installations and yada yada. Well, to make the story short, the system sounds terrible. There used to be some real nice vintage Zeniths and some ancient power amp. Those sounded great, but I wouldn't be surprised if some incompetent people hooked up stuff wrong when doing performances and blew something. Because I still don't know why the dude made the new sound installation.

Drop them in a situation where they are forever intimidated by intelligent people and they will change.

Well actually I don't care about car audio, never said they were top quality, they are made to have dirty power...

What I was saying is high fidelity speakers from nowadays are higher fidelity than the ones from the 80's, specially they all test them in computers, and a very very low margin of error, the speakers are canceled (that's how it works on current high quality models).


And I can say the same to all of you, can't discuss anything ether.


On forums all you can get from all the pros is:

-> Old bikes are better and more reliable;
-> Old cars are lot better;
-> Old airguns used to shoot better;
-> Old computers used to have better construction and would not break in a few time.

Well my answer to all of them is wrong, wrong, wrong. Newer good bikes are the top on reliability, have lot more efficiency, less dirty, more economics, same for the cars, and 60hp nowadays is lot different than a 60hp (on the cars, not bikes of 2strokes vs 4 strokes) from way back. Old airguns? Then they don't know airguns that kill huge boars.

Always had computers for a long time, all of them got broken very fast, and in fact the one that lasted long was from 2006, always 24\7 on until 2010. And what I used to pay for an old pc, it had pretty bad components, not much copper used at all, crappy heatsinks... Nowadays I have a 3slot GPU, lot's and lot's of aluminium, lot's of copper, freakin awesome build quality and very solid...

ps: Same goes with the sound, newer high fidelity amplifiers are ensured to make no distortions or noise in the signals, some you can put lot's of wattage power and near max volume and omg the speakers sound like they are off, nothing of noise... WHATEVER

Where do you get your information? I'm talking purely from experience and knowledge I've learned through professional audio forums.

As I said creative don't actually reverse the compression, but what they do affects the music and in my opinion for better even if they are far away from high fidelity, I always loved their effects EAX...

About the speakers, there's a club here which is the most known of the entire island, they organize lot's of raves too with international dj's like carl cox and so... They use high fidelity speakers in their club, it's not to make loud, but to have high quality. But I still prefered a billion times when they even added some dirty power of a crazy HUGE subwoofer that they now have.

I also prefer home cinema and newer technology systems to the so called high fidelity full range ones from the studio. Y? Well because instead of having a coil that loses all it's power trying to reproduce all the frequencies, I prefer having lot's of speakers, each reproducing a certain frequency only and then with the addition of a subwoofer (+woofer 4 punch).

And my other reason is the high-fidelity speakers at very low volumes like 20db, 30db, don't sound powerfull, while with a subwoofer even at the lowest volume it make you think you still are hearing the punch and shake of the high fidelity speakers on high volume.


And since you guys are all sound engineers, go pick some amplifier schematics from one of the best amplifiers of the 80's or whatever... Buy the original, and remake it only using our top components of nowadays (equivalent ones), like solid capacitors, a thicker board with lot more conductivity, modern copper heatsink design with a fan.... modern high quality mosfet's or any other type of amp u wanna use...

And then come here and tell me which one has more noise in the sound waves, which one consume more, and which one heat more and finally the mix of all, which one has more efficiency? (yeah, think on that, and remember even if most companies just want money, there's always some who still enjoy making high quality products).


An example of a "not bad" hi-fi amplifier is this:

It's only 2 outputs and 180w of power, but this thing cost around 500€ (~658$). Why it cost so much for such low power and options? Well because it's construction is built the old way, but with good modern components, and this is not something near studio quality, but you can't say we don't have quality nowadays.

You can't compare this 500€ amp with only 180w to a cheap 1000w amplifier that cost 100€... What is good still cost a lot, like in the 80's, but back then you didn't have much cheap systems to buy.

ps: this is my opinion, so if you don't like it, I don't care, go buy your vintage speakers from the 80's or whatever you wanna buy, and I will be very happy with the modern high fidelity amplifiers.
Keep Cool

IT SOUNDS BETTER TO ME SO IT IS BETTER. That is his argument.

Is that not all that matters though? Sure he can be spewing a bunch of misinformation all day, but in the end, the only thing that matters is how you like it, not how others like it.

IT SOUNDS BETTER TO ME SO IT IS BETTER. That is his argument. You arent going to convince him otherwise. He has been trained to listen and use buzz words and you can see it throughout his posts. The fact that he mainly listens to dance music indicates that he prefers loudness over quality although he will argue otherwise.

Well I never talked about loudness. DB vs quality is 2 different things...

And since I'm the one that uses the argument "if it sound better to me it's the best".

Then GO BUY A OSCILLOSCOPE AND MEASURE THE NOISE IN THE SIGNAL OF 80'S HIGH FIDELITY SYSTEMS AGAINST MODERN HIGH QUALITY HIGH FIDELITY SYSTEMS (And no I'm not talking about car audio, creative, logitech, or whatever you think I say it's the best... I'm talking about true full range high fidelity low latency systems which are at more than 90% of efficiency).

Or better go compare old resistances against newer ones... Go compare old capacitors against newer solid 3rd generation japanese capacitors... Go compare low use of copper to 3layers of copper in some hardware boards...

ps: Well whatever. Nowadays if you have money you can built whatever you want. But no matter what, even if you told any good manufacturer to make a 1 billion dollars sound system, you will still keep saying the 80's quality is still better, and even if all the connections of the board inside were all made from gold, with the very best special materials we have nowadays you will keep saying the 80's sound systems are better.. WELL WHATEVA! (Go buy them, cause I don't care, I will only laugh when the crappy capacitors make BOOM!).
Keep Cool

15-20 years... only maybe in your hands. I would blow them in a year...

Nothing that used old capacitors got alive that much time in my hands...

My father's old KEF speakers which were pretty cool, are all screwed, it's better to buy a new coil than fixing them, also they are so old, that the magnets already lost some of it's power, just like the ones JBL you have. But you say newer are bad, well I loved the professional JBL 1000W RMS 2-way speakers I had, I bet the quality is like 10x better than ur's.

All the components are screwed cause I listened to Slipknot at full power, that thing was awesome until they started getting hot, and now 10 minutes on high volume the speakers start to blink a red light, until it stop making sound...

And the technics class A amplifier is fucked too... All those old good quality systems can't be used to kick hard like modern speakers 24/7...


At least nowadays even the crappy speakers (with lot less quality than vantage 80's speakers) last longer. Even my logitech crappy Z5500 go beyond their full capabilities for all day long, and they are still punching. For not talking about the my 2.1 super crap creative ones which I increase a lot the outputs in a pre-amp, that the speakers even go beyond their power, there's so many distortions, the amplification dies, but it always come back, they don't wanna die on me .

And newer subwoofer have a crazy excursion, after all they make your house to go down into pieces.

I love subwoofers even if they are way out of the so called high fidelity speakers, which I don't even care about them.


ps: Now talking about high fidelity expensive speakers of nowadays, they are still build like the old way, but use better materials...
Keep Cool

Well spanky any kind of magnet made by humans lose their power everytime... Only rare materials on earth like the powerful neodymnium never lose their magnet field.

Neodymnium based drivers with a good build, are always the best you can get. Nowadays all expensive headphones use neodymnium.

I bought a little neodymnium magnet, and they are freakin powerfull, two little pieces with like 1cm you almost can't separate them. I have seen one little piece in youtube that could lift more than 13kg.


And about the speakers, well they would have last 100 years in my father's hands listening at 3\10 volume and only musics with no much frequencies at play... Now go play something powerful near max full day, I bet that thing's gonna smoke at the end of the night LOL. I prefer a lot a modern modular amp, they will kick hard, and have tons of quality. And together with a good HARD driver, and a custom made case...

Specially I like the coils that are all metallic like titanium, 0 distortions, good fidelity and the metallic punch if well build (though a good one is expensive).
ps: I have lot's of magnets here with lot's of years that I took from old engines, and now they are very very weak, not like they used to be years ago. And low magnets would mean your fidelity is all gone, no more full power.
Keep Cool

Well my father's speakers also have lot's of years and still sound good even though one speaker doesn't take much power now or it stops playing LOL...

But if you would measure it's magnetic field, it's not what it used to be, and if you had an oscilloscope, and what you would measure will not be 100% the same as they were originally and the same to the sound quality wich you may not noticed, but under the right equipment to measure the frequencies, they will not also be the same...

ps: also over the years the resistance of the speakers will surely slightly change, you can test them with a multimeter, I haven't done that test in my father's speakers, but I did it in one creative subwoofer, but it really had what the manufacturer rated...

what made me laugh was reading

Well I'm not surprised since u laugh at everything...

And yeah punch are what the mid-low frequencies do. High fidelity sound don't reproduce much of the lower frequencies, they care more with the mid-low and the higher ones, they have no distortions, and sound pretty damn clear. And actually if you listen to a good fidelity drivers made all of metal without dust cape's, you realize they have a very huge kinda metallic punch, they sound pretty damn crystal clear (and again I'm not talking about those 100€ titanium car speakers, I'm talking about those made for studios that a single one cost 500€...1000€ and aren't even much powerful on wattage, and lot's are still hand-build).

And I'm still in my opinion... Good hand built speakers and amps of high fidelity are still made and they are better than ever, they just are very expensive. That makes almost everyone to have a no fidelity to mid fidelity sound systems because it's what most of us can acquire, just like in the 80's almost no one here had a sound system, they usually had crappy radios...

Also things not possible in the 80's was having good quality in very low speakers, which nowadays you still get a lot of decent sound quality in some sound systems even with speakers that are only a few cm, like 4cm (even though they are no fidelity, they sound pretty damn good).

An example is the X-mini II, I have it, it's a damn small speaker, and that shit actually sound pretty damn good, everyone get's impressed with it, also more impressive is the 8hours of sound play on it's tiny battery.
Keep Cool

But the question is, did YOU measure it? Do YOU have proof that the drivers lost magnetism?

You don't seem to have any proof to back up your statements.

As for the resistance changing, that's either old components in the crossover (again, anybody that knows quality speakers will know to upgrade/overhaul vintage speaker crossovers) or shorts developing in the coil from abuse.

That X Mini you mentioned, it falls in the same category as laptops. Portability comes first, performance is not a priority. People that search for speakers like that generally want them as loud as possible without any care for quality/performance. It is impossible to make portable speakers that sound as good as full-size ones, it's physics.

About my measuring tests it's easy... As I said I have really lot's and lot's of magnets from old engines... They are very little magnets (have little from from speakers too), which I have been saving over the years.

But I can clearly, clearly see that they lost almost all their magnetic power, now they don't lift much weight like they used to. They are little pieces, so you won't probably notice much the power of magnet lost in a speaker because it has a huge magnet and since it's huge you will always note a good magnet power field, but I'm 110% sure they aren't the same as they used to be...


About fixing the old speakers, well, the membrane get's screwed over years (you will use a modern one, which is crappy since nowadays you claim we have no quality)... Then the spiders or whatever u call it, which is what makes it shake to a certain place only, get way too soft over years, that's probably the hearth of the driver, so you will put a modern one, then you will make them sound like a crap since you say the materials nowadays are worst... (why would you buy an old coil which you only like the older ones, and then have it half old, half modern?).

And about the XMINI, your damn wrong. They aren't much louder than the speakers I have in this laptop, but they sound just like if I had a Wi-Fi kind of sound... They really reproduce the lower frequencies pretty good, hell even lower than the hi-fi systems, they really even shake like a damn subwoofer. I recently bought it, and now I have 5 guys always pissing me of to buy more from the internet, because they want it too.


And the why those little speakers are loud enough and with good quality, much is their magnets. I bet they use neodymnium, because I had other portable speakers like X-mini, but from a crappy brand, that had a very bad amplifier that got burned in 5 minutes. I removed everything, and the magnet inside was neodymnium, The screwdriver got glued to the metal around that magnet, it looks like you glue them, you have to make a lot of strength to take it out.

And it was just a very tiny magnet. If you use the most powerful normal magnet of the same size, it will not even have a quarter of it's strength. So I don't wanna even imagine a big coil with a huge neodymnium magnets, they will probable destroy a CRT completely from one meter away of it in less than a second.

ps: Bad quality means high DB, but actually X-mini is loud enough, but has a freakin awesome quality for what they look (but some frequencies make it kinda to make distortions, which doesn't matter).
Keep Cool

Without measurements of the magnetic fields or a study from a reputable source, your opinion is false.

Can you provide frequency response or RMAA measurements for the X-Mini? You say they have great quality but then you say it distorts. Keep your story straight. I did reading and people like it for being the best PORTABLE speaker but I have yet to come across studios or home theater setups using them.

Well I have seen a documentary about magnets, and in them they showed how do they make them... They are just non magnetic materials which are magnetized with high voltage electricity or that kind of shit. And they said that they will lose the magnetic field over the years, and they said how much will they last.

I can't remember the year's, but I think they claimed magnetized magnets will last something like 100 years (I may be wrong), but over the years they will constantly be loosing power.

neodymium are permanent magnets, and have a very huge power. As I said a very little piece can easily lift 13KG.

See the power they have:

Is youtube lying? Hell no, I bought a little piece of them, and I almost have to make all my strength to separate them.

My best bet is you can use them for sure in audio systems, they also add more quality and make sure everything will ever stay in the same spot, and the electricity won't ever change because of magnet affects.


All I know is I'm more than happy with a good headphones with at least 40mm drivers and neodymium magnets and a good sound card in the PC, they will sound like what you can get best from nowadays (nothing to do with high fidelity, those "4 me" are something way better). I also had some BAD ASS Headphones from the 90's, they sounded SO DAMN GOOD, they were almost as expansive as buying a 200€ headphones nowadays. They had two separate plugs (1 for R, 1 for L ) They were really high fidelity headphones, they lasted a year on my fathers amp, but that shit killed my ears 4 real :-\.

After some time I had to put some metal in the headphone coils to make pressure against the magnetic fields, that way, they still worked good, but after some time they started making distortions.

Now the thing is I prefer a ~60€ Headphones from nowadays connected to a good PC soundcard, than using the old thecnics amp, it's two very different worlds, No matter on how much volume I use the amplifier, I will keep not listening people walking in games, I tried that, now with the headphones, you can listen every little detail, that you never though it was even there...

ps: Well again whatever... buy what you like, I prefer good modern digital systems with high efficiency (the ones that uses 90%+ of the electricity in sound, not in heat, or lost).
Keep Cool