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Author Topic: The 203 disabled on hospital.  (Read 75867 times)

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Offline Spanky

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Re: The 203 disabled on hospital.
« Reply #315 on: Saturday, October 18, 2014, 22:10:07 PM »
ELiZ isn't a bot. I agree that voting should be done and we should hear from the users but it shouldn't always be the rule. We should take this information and consider the feasible options. ELiZ (and Killa for that matter) saw a way to fix the issue that took mere seconds and implemented it because the majority wanted it. There's nothing wrong with that. Quick solution to please the majority of people. The issue that remains is pleasing all the people. That will take some time to discuss and figure out.
It's like shaving your pubes to make your junk look bigger.
Might look bigger, but it aint.....

Offline MrEpicGoat

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Re: The 203 disabled on hospital.
« Reply #316 on: Saturday, October 18, 2014, 22:22:34 PM »
The issue that remains is pleasing all the people. That will take some time to discuss and figure out.

Of course, that is impossible to achieve. Do not try to please all people.

But also, do not try please _some_ people, while by intrusive changes to the game.

And I repeat: _some_ people. You didn't seem to even check the votes (Bollie even publicly said "I voted many times").

Offline Spanky

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Re: The 203 disabled on hospital.
« Reply #317 on: Saturday, October 18, 2014, 22:33:59 PM »
After Bollie said that, ELiZ asked me about the code. I looked into it and fixed the issue of duplicate votes. There aren't many duplicate votes in the poll.
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Offline MrEpicGoat

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Re: The 203 disabled on hospital.
« Reply #318 on: Saturday, October 18, 2014, 23:07:23 PM »
After Bollie said that, ELiZ asked me about the code. I looked into it and fixed the issue of duplicate votes. There aren't many duplicate votes in the poll.

Good to hear that you check it.

But what about those who were trying to abuse the system? If you punish players for things like teamkilling and mouse macros, shoudn't you have punished Bollie for cheating on voting system? It is a serious matter.

Offline Spanky

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Re: The 203 disabled on hospital.
« Reply #319 on: Saturday, October 18, 2014, 23:25:01 PM »
Eh, it's a minor thing and we didn't specifically say only vote once.
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Offline ~=W!CK!D=~

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Re: The 203 disabled on hospital.
« Reply #320 on: Saturday, October 18, 2014, 23:36:33 PM »
After Bollie said that, ELiZ asked me about the code. I looked into it and fixed the issue of duplicate votes. There aren't many duplicate votes in the poll.

far as voting from different accounts, I know I wasn't able to cast a vote from 3 of my separate accounts

Offline bollie

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Re: The 203 disabled on hospital.
« Reply #321 on: Sunday, October 19, 2014, 04:13:58 AM »
After Bollie said that, ELiZ asked me about the code. I looked into it and fixed the issue of duplicate votes. There aren't many duplicate votes in the poll.

Oh and for the record: i voted 3 times.
And I did raise some friends to vote against the 203.

And wicky ur a fake nerd with a big rig ;-)

Offline bollie

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Re: The 203 disabled on hospital.
« Reply #322 on: Sunday, October 19, 2014, 04:15:28 AM »
Good to hear that you check it.

But what about those who were trying to abuse the system? If you punish players for things like teamkilling and mouse macros, shoudn't you have punished Bollie for cheating on voting system? It is a serious matter.

You cant do crap. I used 3 different computers and different isp to vote from.

Offline Koden

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Re: The 203 disabled on hospital.
« Reply #323 on: Sunday, October 19, 2014, 05:09:22 AM »
You cant do crap. I used 3 different computers and different isp to vote from.


Such a useless effort? I mean, the poll was won by over 63%...

Offline bollie

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Re: The 203 disabled on hospital.
« Reply #324 on: Sunday, October 19, 2014, 05:17:24 AM »
Such a useless effort? I mean, the poll was won by over 63%...

I voted when it started.
 So anymore useless comments you wanna make Koden?

Offline Bart!

Re: The 203 disabled on hospital.
« Reply #325 on: Sunday, October 19, 2014, 05:41:44 AM »
True, i'm not sure if we can put ganja on that list because i heard him say he doesn't really care if it's with or without 203.

Caught Bart a couple of times red handed joining a server and crying after a couple of rounds in Assist chat when he rage quitted (<- thanks for letting me borrow those words Ganja).
Well, yes, I also said in the other thread that I don't like them, but that was my personal opinion, everybody is entitled to have that.

So to stop the rumours of this I give you 2 facts about what happened:
1. I did NOT start the thread directly or indirectly about removing 203s.
2. When it was mentioned I did say I was in favour of testing it, which isn't a surprise since most will know I did not like it personal, but NOWHERE did I ever start this discussion.

So, the finger pointing will get you nowhere on that base, and it shouldn't be the discussion point anyways.

Now that is cleared up, I will give my opinion about why a 203 does fit on insurgent camp/sf oasis etc, but not on sf hospital, both for gameplay purpose as scenario:
1. The way Hospital is designed, many of the 203 shots are such a shots that kills are definitive, from upper helipad to somewhere down there with usually a wall behind it are just free frags
2. 203s do work for wwr/escort building. The problem then is the weapon balance, as far as I've noticed is that SPR is way worse, this is why in the past a lot of people where exploiting the parental control to change their SPR. It was almost impossible to get a good SPR spot, sometimes you saw them at the back of garage, but that's seen from the objective not the best spot to have. I also feel that in relation with 18C, IF74 also became better.
3. A 203 in the hospital to blindfire with when there could be nurses anywhere is just a big no for the ROE
4. Not to mention that you see a lot of 203s being used for: blindfire, taking free frags while sitting in the back of garage, people walking on helicopter roof with 203 out to get a free kill, and only some of them actually trying to stop roof.
5. I have the feeling escort focusses more on covering the VIP now, and ambush actually tries to take over either helipad or take control over underpass. With 203s out more focus was set on more comfortable gameplay with 203 to stop the vip. (This is not always the case, but I did see in the test-week that focus has changed.)

So, why does it work on oasis, ic, etc?
1. Oasis: map design, very hard to actually hit the 203, but very rewarding if you do, it takes much more to hit a 203 on those distances with those hills, and it thus does not make other weapons very imbalanced either. 203/rpg does not dominate gameplay as much compared to hospi. You can't get a kill with 203 that easily on this map (unless someone runs in the open in the river)
2. Insurgent Camp: There is only 1 (or 2 in a full server) person with 203, you can not get spammed from 5 different directions. It is a lot harder to hit the windows, or hit someone proning south outside. Because of only 1 203, when a 203 is fired you have a small time frame in which you can show up at certain areas and take this to your advantage when the 203 wasted 1 shell. Opens up more tactical plays in teams.


I personally also have the feeling, but because it is a feeling I did not put it in that list, that 203s on hospital mainly get used to get some easy kills, while on the other maps it is used more often to stop someone who is actually hiding somewhere, or trying to stop others on for example insurgent camp to spamming you from everywhere.

Offline widow

Re: The 203 disabled on hospital.
« Reply #326 on: Sunday, October 19, 2014, 06:23:30 AM »
widow, that's great that you don't like spamming. I wish many more players were like you. The sad fact is, many players do spam to get cheap kills without any skill. That is the problem we are trying to address. The simplest way to do that is to remove the weapon that can be spammed. That is a solution, and the one being used right now but it's not the best solution. Personally, I would like to see global spam settings that prevent grenade/203 spam for 15-20 seconds at round start (maybe longer, we have to test).

We're not trying to dumb down the game or ignore people and do what we want. We're trying to make the game better. You don't do that by sitting still, that's how things die. Just like in life, you learn and improve. We're trying to fix issues inherent in the game that the original devs did not bother with due to time/budget constraints. These ARE problems, we just need to find an elegant way to solve them to keep everybody happy.

that would be perfect.test it. u will see, then every1 is happy. there is no spam anymore AND others what need the 203 later in the game still can use it...

Offline bollie

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Re: The 203 disabled on hospital.
« Reply #327 on: Sunday, October 19, 2014, 07:33:50 AM »
20 to 30 sec delay would be the best. But that wasnt a option in the vote...

Offline rmcdzk

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Re: The 203 disabled on hospital.
« Reply #328 on: Sunday, October 19, 2014, 07:53:08 AM »
1. The way Hospital is designed, many of the 203 shots are such a shots that kills are definitive, from upper helipad to somewhere down there with usually a wall behind it are just free frags
2. 203s do work for wwr/escort building. The problem then is the weapon balance, as far as I've noticed is that SPR is way worse, this is why in the past a lot of people where exploiting the parental control to change their SPR. It was almost impossible to get a good SPR spot, sometimes you saw them at the back of garage, but that's seen from the objective not the best spot to have. I also feel that in relation with 18C, IF74 also became better.
3. A 203 in the hospital to blindfire with when there could be nurses anywhere is just a big no for the ROE
4. Not to mention that you see a lot of 203s being used for: blindfire, taking free frags while sitting in the back of garage, people walking on helicopter roof with 203 out to get a free kill, and only some of them actually trying to stop roof.

That all is correct and logical.

So, why does it work on oasis, ic, etc?
1. Oasis: map design, very hard to actually hit the 203, but very rewarding if you do, it takes much more to hit a 203 on those distances with those hills, and it thus does not make other weapons very imbalanced either. 203/rpg does not dominate gameplay as much compared to hospi. You can't get a kill with 203 that easily on this map (unless someone runs in the open in the river)
2. Insurgent Camp: There is only 1 (or 2 in a full server) person with 203, you can not get spammed from 5 different directions. It is a lot harder to hit the windows, or hit someone proning south outside. Because of only 1 203, when a 203 is fired you have a small time frame in which you can show up at certain areas and take this to your advantage when the 203 wasted 1 shell. Opens up more tactical plays in teams.
Personally I think IC is the hardest and the most demanding map for 203er but it's not about aiming. Aiming is pretty simple and you have many points of reference from almost every possible and reasonable position, sometimes recoil makes you miss, but it's pure statistics. Feeling the gameplay and thinking make a good 203er on this map, you blindshoot, you predict, you change your position to the best one the current round situation demands, shooting only in certain time frames when your mates are safe from GP. IC is the map where a real good 203er makes the real difference, on pub and 4v4. He's usually the guy who takes the first kill. It's so much easier to play 4v3 situation on this map or when the G in opposite team is just shit :D. That's why I've seen only few good fellas with G on this map and it was pleasure to play against them. IC is the most demanding map for 4v4 (tunnel is comparable). When the push on the certain PC is done well, the other team can count only on some superlucky individual skills. My favourite map.     

Other maps. Maps like BSE, MP, RT are much more demanding as it concerns aiming, the most is with no doubt MPSE. It's all about spot, aim, shoot (higher level is spot, go back beyond the visibility border, aim and shoot being safe mostly) as fast as you can. On these map you can see who's the real 203er and who is not. It's not putting a dot 1 centimeter above the ww door and shoot for 6666666666th time, it takes a real skill to do that. Imho it's way harder than learning how to control recoil of M16 and M249.

When I see SF 203 heros (hospital, csar or any other SF poo except Oasis and Recon) on big boys maps shooting 203s and missing by kilometers tears are droping on my knees...

Well... whatever....  :P
« Last Edit: Sunday, October 19, 2014, 08:01:34 AM by rmcdzk »

Offline MrEpicGoat

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Re: The 203 disabled on hospital.
« Reply #329 on: Sunday, October 19, 2014, 10:39:12 AM »
You cant do crap. I used 3 different computers and different isp to vote from.

This person shall be immediately banned e.g. for 1 week, for deliberately abusing the system, and then publicly bragging about it.

 

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