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Poll

Second chance for the hackers/cheaters

Yes
1618 (63.2%)
Yes (Hacker Tag)
325 (12.7%)
No (Permanent ban)
619 (24.2%)

Total Members Voted: 60

Voting closed: Thursday, November 21, 2013, 21:41:34 PM

Author Topic: [Poll] Banning Policy...  (Read 53395 times)

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Offline zoxee

Re: [Poll] Banning Policy...
« Reply #90 on: Thursday, October 24, 2013, 04:07:55 AM »
why the hell would you give a cheater the oppurtunity to earn a badge by letting them donate for a game , seriously you think they will stopp cheating ??? they burned there bridges at the moment they started cheating ,,,,,,, just let them stay out of the game ,any cheater that has been cheating will always try to find a way to cheat again  , ( A FOX WILL LOOSE THEIR HAIRS BUT THE TRICKS THEY DONE THEY WONT FORGET)    my opinion is cheating on a game should be punished and not been giving a 2nd change

I fully agree with you, my proposal was just ironical.

I personally doubt hacker paradise would be of any good to the game, since it will encourage hackers to make better and better hacks to beat other hackers, and at a certain point they will just come over to normal servers, because they got owned by other hackers. Let me remind you that the objectives of most hackers is to feel 'better' than others. So I think the hacker's paradise will only attract the best hackers (probably those who make their own hacks)  and that the kids that buy the hacks will get raped and go normal server.

+1
First time hot knifing hash oil, sent me to the moon, zombified. Not a whole lot of fun.

Offline bollie

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Re: [Poll] Banning Policy...
« Reply #91 on: Thursday, October 24, 2013, 05:31:45 AM »
Reminder to myself: kick ganja next time I see him

Hehe

Offline ArmyAntiCheat

Re: [Poll] Banning Policy...
« Reply #92 on: Saturday, October 26, 2013, 07:10:17 AM »
I see three users here, who deserve a badge and who works hard for this game not with the coding but with the words. Dav3, Nobigdeal and MIKKAWE.

Why?

Simple. They are true users of this forum, each time they post they put suggestion for the whole community and don't post whore and make off topic jokes. Most users don't even think about others. Imagine you've been banned and how would you fell in the hackers place? Of course you would want a second chance, and of course you would say I'm sorry I won't do it again. Why are admins so strict against the hackers? Why they use so much shit towards them? What about other games such as AA2.8, AA3, AA4, do they use such a crap piece of security to spy on others computers?

For admins I would say start to think. Start to make hard decisions that would bring more people, this was the aim of the original devs and so do it, stop thinking about the security, it is way to strict. Why you wouldn't give a second chance? Are you not a human being? Is it so hard, hard to forgive, give a second chance? The punishment is too hard. It's just a video game and shows about your personality. It's true, this game will die it's obvious, like it's been said in 5 years and i believe it will be sooner so everyone should get their chance to play the game. Remove their accounts, remove all ''who hacked'' accounts so they can start again, fresh start with the TAG.

I voted for the TAG option. People who say they deserve a perm ban are stupid and don't think into the future. I'm talking to stop fucking around and stop hating hackers, even AA3 wasn't so strict about them, as they, we, tried to stop them. We just led the game on. Look how many are banned, unbanning them would bring even more players and would make more servers full.

Server Problem fix:

Too many servers. 105 servers and a small player base. Start to run your own assist servers. Or let clans know that assist at least doesn't tolerate this. Or make at least maximum of 25 servers allowed to be hosted. Something can be thinked for this fix.

For Assist Fix:

You are not humans. Without forgiving you are not. We all did mistakes have we not? Don't tell me you never tried or wanted to hack and don't tell me you haven't worked with hacks before or if you are working right now. I see that admins like to ignore, they don't think into the future and they don't want to make risky and hard decisions neverless it must be done. The TERMS OF AGREEMENT thing wasn't until most of the people got banned, no warning nothing to warn them..., when all got banned you now make that shit. Very disappointed. Maybe most of them didn't even go to forum and didn't see that strict punishment...

For ELIZ:

Disappointed that's all. Now you are following Johnny. You are following his steps to make the game secure at its finest but will it it work for long? the answer is no. Just watch out ELIZ, don't make the mistake Johnny did. Too much for this game and you are not trust able anymore. Stop contrasting your full hate on hackers. You now how they fell, you know that hacking is educational for good and bad. Had they seen the TERMS OF AGREEMENT until you made one? no I don't think so.

I don't support hackers but comon, they are not killing the game the community and the assist is. I mean it's people.

Start to think and start to forgive.

Offline Rob_LD

Re: [Poll] Banning Policy...
« Reply #93 on: Saturday, October 26, 2013, 07:34:56 AM »
@ArmyAntiCheat
Quote
Look how many are banned, unbanning them would bring even more players and would make more servers full.
This is a misbelief.
Only one hacker can bring at least 2 clean players to quit with this game.
The more of this cheating bastards are playing the higher the chances are to loose regular ones.
 
But you are right, it's only a video game, one out of thousand.
So there is no reason for people who play for fun to stay with this particular one if it is full of hackers.


BTW:
I wonder what shitstorm would go on if someone with a "Hacker Tag" entering a server...
Impossible solution!
« Last Edit: Saturday, October 26, 2013, 07:37:16 AM by Rob_LD »

Offline Vanoke

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Re: [Poll] Banning Policy...
« Reply #94 on: Saturday, October 26, 2013, 07:50:59 AM »
you talk about 25 game maps while there are 68  games that you can play in forceclass ore normal that makes 136 diffrent play grownds so to many server is not the problem its oke people can see how many maps are in assist and they can play it so fare they are running. thats good for the outsite new comming players that can see all not only 25 maps.

Jhonny is not Eliz ,Eliz lissend to the poll and Jhonny was only lissterning to his self.!!!

I see three users here, who deserve a badge and who works hard for this game not with the coding but with the words. Dav3, Nobigdeal and MIKKAWE.

Why?

Simple. They are true users of this forum, each time they post they put suggestion for the whole community and don't post whore and make off topic jokes. Most users don't even think about others. Imagine you've been banned and how would you fell in the hackers place? Of course you would want a second chance, and of course you would say I'm sorry I won't do it again. Why are admins so strict against the hackers? Why they use so much shit towards them? What about other games such as AA2.8, AA3, AA4, do they use such a crap piece of security to spy on others computers?

For admins I would say start to think. Start to make hard decisions that would bring more people, this was the aim of the original devs and so do it, stop thinking about the security, it is way to strict. Why you wouldn't give a second chance? Are you not a human being? Is it so hard, hard to forgive, give a second chance? The punishment is too hard. It's just a video game and shows about your personality. It's true, this game will die it's obvious, like it's been said in 5 years and i believe it will be sooner so everyone should get their chance to play the game. Remove their accounts, remove all ''who hacked'' accounts so they can start again, fresh start with the TAG.

I voted for the TAG option. People who say they deserve a perm ban are stupid and don't think into the future. I'm talking to stop fucking around and stop hating hackers, even AA3 wasn't so strict about them, as they, we, tried to stop them. We just led the game on. Look how many are banned, unbanning them would bring even more players and would make more servers full.

Server Problem fix:

Too many servers. 105 servers and a small player base. Start to run your own assist servers. Or let clans know that assist at least doesn't tolerate this. Or make at least maximum of 25 servers allowed to be hosted. Something can be thinked for this fix.


For Assist Fix:

You are not humans. Without forgiving you are not. We all did mistakes have we not? Don't tell me you never tried or wanted to hack and don't tell me you haven't worked with hacks before or if you are working right now. I see that admins like to ignore, they don't think into the future and they don't want to make risky and hard decisions neverless it must be done. The TERMS OF AGREEMENT thing wasn't until most of the people got banned, no warning nothing to warn them..., when all got banned you now make that shit. Very disappointed. Maybe most of them didn't even go to forum and didn't see that strict punishment...

For ELIZ:

Disappointed that's all. Now you are following Johnny. You are following his steps to make the game secure at its finest but will it it work for long? the answer is no. Just watch out ELIZ, don't make the mistake Johnny did. Too much for this game and you are not trust able anymore. Stop contrasting your full hate on hackers. You now how they fell, you know that hacking is educational for good and bad. Had they seen the TERMS OF AGREEMENT until you made one? no I don't think so.


I don't support hackers but comon, they are not killing the game the community and the assist is. I mean it's people.

Start to think and start to forgive.
« Last Edit: Saturday, October 26, 2013, 07:55:37 AM by Vanoke »

Offline ELiZ

Re: [Poll] Banning Policy...
« Reply #95 on: Saturday, October 26, 2013, 08:03:23 AM »
Don't tell me you never tried or wanted to hack and don't tell me you haven't worked with hacks before or if you are working right now.
No, I never felt any urges in that direction.


For ELIZ:

Disappointed that's all. Now you are following Johnny. You are following his steps to make the game secure at its finest but will it it work for long? the answer is no. Just watch out ELIZ, don't make the mistake Johnny did. Too much for this game and you are not trust able anymore. Stop contrasting your full hate on hackers. You now how they fell, you know that hacking is educational for good and bad. Had they seen the TERMS OF AGREEMENT until you made one? no I don't think so.

Yes, hacking is a dual edged sword, cheating is NOT!
The poll in this thread and in the one for AutoHotKey clearly shows that the remaining players want the current direction of AntiCheat.

As I stated in another thread, I let the majority rule.
If I would not like what the majority likes, I would not be a part of this thing we call 25Assist.

Offline Vanoke

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Re: [Poll] Banning Policy...
« Reply #96 on: Saturday, October 26, 2013, 08:19:27 AM »
I have sinds the biginning great fun in the game and all players that only play this game to,
The stress in forums topics here every time!!!!!,  about hacks and cheats is greater than that it is in reality.

1 - I don t know if sum maps have more problems than adders but i see and look and find in all the time that i was playing this game 3 yes tree times that a little boy ore girl  dit juse summting that spoiled it for the rest.
I kickt and ban them and thats it. thats for dowing cheats ore hack

2 -Adder point is the language ore the way players behave them self aganst adders in game and in forum.
for me it can be a reason to kick ore ban him. ore tell him he is not welcome!

3- Adder simple way to kick ore ban a player is ( you cant proof that he is dowing summthing but his K/D rate is unbeliveble high and he play all your gamers from your server. i have one exemple that guy is banned sinds 2010 in 2.8.5 and he is in talking oke but we all think he hase summthing but we can t proof.
So in a clan dissision we banned him ..

     


@ArmyAntiCheatThis is a misbelief.
Only one hacker can bring at least 2 clean players to quit with this game.
The more of this cheating bastards are playing the higher the chances are to loose regular ones.
 
But you are right, it's only a video game, one out of thousand.
So there is no reason for people who play for fun to stay with this particular one if it is full of hackers.



BTW:
I wonder what shitstorm would go on if someone with a "Hacker Tag" entering a server...
Impossible solution!
« Last Edit: Saturday, October 26, 2013, 08:27:51 AM by Vanoke »

Offline Mixk

Re: [Poll] Banning Policy...
« Reply #97 on: Saturday, October 26, 2013, 11:02:28 AM »
Why do we need 30 days for a poll? To round up all your hacker buds out from under the rocks to come vote? Going to some pretty extreme measures to try and get what you want.
I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.

Offline NoBigDeal

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Re: [Poll] Banning Policy...
« Reply #98 on: Wednesday, November 06, 2013, 10:06:09 AM »
WTH!!! Spanky, where is my post!!?
What if you could change the world by changing your perspective of it?
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Offline Alex

Re: [Poll] Banning Policy...
« Reply #99 on: Wednesday, November 06, 2013, 14:33:35 PM »
I don't see how a hacker tag is an even remotely good idea. They would just get kicked by every server admin. I also don't like the idea of requiring a bribe, er, I'm sorry, a donation, to get them unbanned. I fail to see how letting hackers back into the game will help the community as a whole. If anything, it's just going to divide everyone, especially if a hacker tag is implemented. Just ban them and be done with it. I've always had a zero tolerance stance when it comes to cheating though.

Offline HardMatic

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Re: [Poll] Banning Policy...
« Reply #100 on: Wednesday, November 06, 2013, 15:42:41 PM »
A hacker tag would get banned or kick from every server .

Offline HardMatic

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Re: Banning Policy...
« Reply #101 on: Wednesday, November 06, 2013, 15:44:19 PM »
Be serious, hacks are for free too...
...maybe because you don't/can't/wan't see the bigger picture... From what I see, this game/community is dying - with every permanent ban = one player less. Even if 1/100 cheater will regret for what he's done (or his brother, sister etc. :D) and after his punishment he will play honorably, then is worth it to give him that chance. What is most important he will stay with community - more players to play with...

To be clear: it's not because of my personal interest, I don't play this game, never played and (most probably) never will... It's because I've seen a lot of collapse of small communities like this one.

Sounds like extortion

Offline Ganja

Re: [Poll] Banning Policy...
« Reply #102 on: Wednesday, November 06, 2013, 16:03:09 PM »
Well i think there should be a way to see on BT if players are banned or not, but i guess that's non of your power?

Offline WORLDCHANCELLOR

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Re: [Poll] Banning Policy...
« Reply #103 on: Saturday, November 09, 2013, 12:12:19 PM »
Why not just explore ways to prevent, or simply catch, cheating? Before the ball dropped about Assist (when we possibly almost lost it forever), I had a long discussion with one of the admins/devs on xfire about some of the ways to deal with things like this. I've played this thing a long, long time -- at the very apex of competition we've been blessed to have in this game. Over a span of 10 years, I've been intimately familiarized with nearly every aspect of being an AA Player -- a "scrub," a "pubscrub," a "cheater," a "starter" on top teams, a "head admin" of a league, all the way to an "Anticheat" guy who infiltrated the hacking underworld, along with Reaper ACI.

When playing in these leagues and competitions -- Cal Invites, HTGN, TWL, AGC, Cevo Professional, etc -- there were similarities and differences in the way they handled matters like this. We can examine some of their successes and failures to determine effective ways to stop, underscore, and deter cheating.

But firstly, let's address some pivotal info about hacks. Hacks are pretty useless if you don't have the visuals (i.e. wallhacks, radars/esp, etc), especially if the cheater is attempting to be discrete about their cheating. If a cheater wants to 'aimbot,' they have to 'know' where the enemies are, so that they are not in the peculiar situation of multiple enemies being in their field of view, because this would make the player spin around everywhere like the Exorcist, constantly 'locking on' to heads (and the cheater better not EVER go idle, hahahah). This, of course, is a huge indicator of aimbot usage. Similarly, playing with no recoil is not a great idea for cheaters looking to hide their artificial "skills," as first-person spectating and bullet-spread decals will quickly highlight their digital malice. Without the visuals, fundamentally, all a hacker is really left with is "no-flash" (if their hack even has something like that). And no-flash is not enough to give them that great of an edge anyway, as they would have to "fake the funk" to prevent detection, so the point would be vacuous. So, with this info, let's examine the leagues and find some interesting information, which can EASILY help us in these modern days of Assist:

TWL -- it had an interesting run over the years, but after the first couple of major seasons, its significance and popularity began to wane, and slowly continued to do so, on up till the end, because of its insecure, yet stringent AC practices. TWL's AC could be easily bypassed. It did the basic stuff -- checked processes, scanned for extraneous things and general AA-centric system anomalies, but it barely ever caught "good" hacks. What made a hack "good" was not only its ability to bypass initial detection of a league's AC client and Punkbuster with its proprietary, constantly-updated hooking methods, but also its ability to discern the algorithm with which Punkbuster, and a league's AC client, use to capture players' screenshots (this is VERY important). Well, I don't think TWL ever got around to making its AC client take screenshots at all; and if it did, it captured them in a similar, "set," "static" fashion like PB's capturing method.

If an AC client is coded to only capture screenshots in a "set" fashion -- say, every 96 seconds -- then this is blatant predictability. What I believe I was told about PB was that its "updates" incorporated different static "set" capturing methods, which then prompted hack developers to update their visuals-bypass functions to correspond with the modifications within the updates for PB (and whatever else they were attempting to circumvent). So, with no implemented method of capturing "good" hacks, what TWL resorted to -- which contributed, greatly, to its lack of relevance -- was ban people for all sorts of stuff, like linked accounts (even loosely linked), pub bans, forum bans/disruptions, and all manners of things that weren't even pertinent to playing in TWL itself and on its client. This, in itself, was a huge indicator that it had no trust in its AC client. Top, well-respected players in AA who have never touched a cheat, or even been accused of a cheat, have been permanently banned from TWL, but those players didn't even care, because no one really trusted TWL in the first place, EVEN WITH their strange, paranoid, anti-cheat measures.

In CAL, early on, it was scientifically proven that their AC client was a complete and literal joke; meaning, essentially, it did n o t h i n g at all. It did, however, probably scare some people into not hacking in CAL, but the client itself was a bluff. Later on, though, they did get it to do something. It did an interesting job at catching hooking/injecting methods, but it still wasn't good enough, as its screenshotting method was static. The Cal "ACS" was updated a lot, though, because of people like me and Reaper. At that time, I had many connections in the hacking underworld. Hackers shared with me their forum accounts, and so I had access to these hacks whenever they were updated, and so Reaper and I would grab them and send them to Punkbuster and the leagues' AC depts (particularly CAL, as it was the biggest, most important league at the time). Ehhh, this operation we had going had to remain kinda hush, which means many people don't even know this was going on, as my hacking connections would've fucked me up (some of those dudes were seriously mentally ill/psycho). In fact, it had already happened once before when a well-known hacker got pissed at me and screwed with my computer for a few weeks. lol, I think Jonny from audigy/IoG remembers this time. But I've digressed. So the only reason some people's visuals were detected on CAL ACS was because we were sending the updated versions of the hacks directly to the leagues' AC (oftentimes before a lot of the cheaters even got a chance to download them, lol). This allowed CAL ACS to update its SS-capturing intervals, and so folks who tried to cheat on the ACS got banned because they had hacks that weren't updated to bypass its visuals on the right intervals. But doing this week after week was an annoying thing, and doing something similar today is not feasible; plus, I have no clue who's manufacturing AA2 hacks these days, and I'm sure the folks who DO know are not willing to do what I used to do.

Then, among others, we have the CEVO league. CEVO's AC client -- named "CMN3" at the time -- was probably the most feared AC client in the history of America's Army. We had to pay to play in this league, so the AC had to be trustworthy, and it was. Because of the secrecy surrounding all that it did, I'm not entirely certain about everything regarding this client. HOWEVER, I did find out something quite profound regarding why hack developers gave up on it. Turns out that CEVO took random, unpredictable screenshots. Now this is something I talked to Possessed about on Xfire during the recent, ephemeral death of Assist. This type of capturing method is beautiful; and with Assist being our very own AC Client, I think that there are substantive ways of catching hackers and leaving the ones we don't catch heavily debilitated (and 'catchable' if they become tempted to 'get good'). As I said earlier, without their visuals, it becomes a daunting proposition if they want to go unnoticed. A cheater without the visuals is either going to be a bizarre, spinning, Exorcist-like Blatant-Bobby, or he's going to be pretty bad, like everyone else. haha --

As of right now, although many don't realize this because they didn't read the new Assist agreement, Assist can take screenshots, but I'm not entirely certain if it takes the screenshots automatically and randomly. If we could incorporate this ability into Assist (if it's not already there yet, as I suggested to Possessed), then couldn't we just shoot for this? The screenshots could be automatically uploaded to a server, or servers, old PB style, where they can be viewed on an webpage that simply lists links to images of players' screenshots. This would use up some bandwidth, but it shouldn't be that bad at all. Perhaps we could do an auto-purging thing for these SS images after, say, 48 hours or whatever. This would help free up server-capacity space.

In closing, after all my years of AA, the most effective AC method I've seen was the client (CMN3) that took random screenshots, and not the set, predictable screenshots of everything else, including PB. And as for banning policy, I say if they cheat on Assist, charge them $300 to play again. Assist, at its core, is already a second-chance thing, and cheating in a game that only has a handful of players is really messed up. But a perma-ban would just mean 1 less player. Make them pay; this could help with the development.

SORRY FOR THE WALL OF TEXT!!!

Offline Ganja

Re: [Poll] Banning Policy...
« Reply #104 on: Saturday, November 09, 2013, 12:24:39 PM »


As of right now, although many don't realize this because they didn't read the new Assist agreement, Assist can take screenshots, but I'm not entirely certain if it takes the screenshots automatically and randomly. If we could incorporate this ability into Assist (if it's not already there yet, as I suggested to Possessed), then couldn't we just shoot for this? The screenshots could be automatically uploaded to a server, or servers, old PB style, where they can be viewed on an webpage that simply lists links to images of players' screenshots. This would use up some bandwidth, but it shouldn't be that bad at all. Perhaps we could do an auto-purging thing for these SS images after, say, 48 hours or whatever. This would help free up server-capacity space.


Who would look at this? I guess it takes a lot of free time. And it means , watching everybody's screenshots, so it's private, so not anyon could go for the job. And when assist implemented the SS system one of thhe arguments was 'they will only take ss if you're fishy'. That calmed down some players, but now it won't be the case anymore.

Don't take me wrong, it would be nice initiative, but good luck finding one of the admins to use his free time to do that

 

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