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Author Topic: Tournament maps  (Read 4397 times)

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Offline Dialects

Re: Tournament maps
« Reply #30 on: Saturday, December 28, 2013, 19:41:34 PM »
Quote
Mikawe, I would like to edit stock maps and improve them visually as well as fix bugs and add things players would like to see. The problem is, the shitstorm of complaints that come up with even editing minor things isn't worth it. Remember what happened when I added railing and slightly changed the layout of the roof on Hospital? Just a minor place in the map that, on some rounds, isn't even used. The people went apeshit.

People bitch, period. Especially the ones that play America's Army. What do we make out of that? I'd take constructive feedback like the one atx_mza, utRoda and other competitive players have been giving over the usual moaning and bitching the rest of the users may provide.

I understand how this can be a two-edged sword. On one hand come the worries that we'll loose players if we mess with maps while on the other hand comes to long-term realisation that if we let AA sit as was/is, we'll definitely be walking towards a dead end. I'd rather bring the new twist sooner than later, attempting to gather newcoming interest, momentum and the likes from the competitive scene.

My perspective has always been the same. Take AA and create something new with it. Being a standoff for the good old times simply won't cut it anymore --or even if it does, its death will remain at the mercy of time.
"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his." - George S. Patton

Offline atx_mza

Re: Tournament maps
« Reply #31 on: Saturday, December 28, 2013, 19:56:17 PM »

The issue with Weapons Cache versus SF Hospital is that Hospital came out a fair bit later than WC and thus technology had advanced since then. Weapons Cache is a pretty basic design map that is very easy to optimize and run efficiently. Hospital has terrain and a lot of meshes, lighting effects and complex shapes to cope with and isn't as easily optimized.


Which is why it is shit and killed a blooming game. FPS should be constant map to map. AA was popular when you could download it off file front in an hour and run it on a toaster oven. Its a fact that game started dying day one of 2.0 and only took .5 versions to bury it. If you keep trying to revive the pieces of the game that killed it you'll never succeed. This is not me disregarding your amazing work with trying to keep it alive or being disrespectful to pub players. unless you are actually a member of the original [DEV] team, those guys can suck it. Just the opinions of someone who has played this game at the highest level and saw the demise first hand.

Offline atx_mza

Re: Tournament maps
« Reply #32 on: Saturday, December 28, 2013, 19:58:33 PM »
Graphics and new maps should never take precident over gameplay. That's what the devs made the mistake on and unfortunately it seems the revive may be going to same way

Offline Spanky

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Re: Tournament maps
« Reply #33 on: Saturday, December 28, 2013, 20:00:41 PM »
I never really saw the demise, I always hung back a few versions and just played for fun, plus it seems like I came along after a lot of the other people here did oddly enough.

I think you're being a bit harsh when talking about SF maps, especially Hospital and CSAR which seem to be pretty popular.

What we need is a thread to start fresh where tangible ideas are discussed and listed out. Figure out a direction to take this game and then allow the users to vote on it (which will be a lot easier when the new Assist comes out).

FYI, none of us were ever part of any of the dev teams, we're all just fans :)

Graphics and new maps should never take precident over gameplay. That's what the devs made the mistake on and unfortunately it seems the revive may be going to same way
You ain't kidding, that's why nobody plays my version of Pipeline...
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Offline atx_mza

Re: Tournament maps
« Reply #34 on: Saturday, December 28, 2013, 20:13:25 PM »
I never really saw the demise, I always hung back a few versions and just played for fun, plus it seems like I came along after a lot of the other people here did oddly enough.

I think you're being a bit harsh when talking about SF maps, especially Hospital and CSAR which seem to be pretty popular.

What we need is a thread to start fresh where tangible ideas are discussed and listed out. Figure out a direction to take this game and then allow the users to vote on it (which will be a lot easier when the new Assist comes out).

FYI, none of us were ever part of any of the dev teams, we're all just fans :)
You ain't kidding, that's why nobody plays my version of Pipeline...


Don't get me wrong a couple of the SF Maps are good maps sandstorm is really good competive and hospital is very fun to pub on. It's the fact that you need signifigantly higher PC performance to run those maps than you do to run the base maps.. They really should have put out a new game called AA:SF instead of making 2.0. So I am being harsh on the maps themselves when I should be harsh on the changes they made to every other part of the game so they could shove the maps into a game that wasn't equipped for them.

From what I've seen I like your pipeline with the re lighting  :up:

Offline Spanky

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Re: Tournament maps
« Reply #35 on: Saturday, December 28, 2013, 20:21:30 PM »
They really should have put out a new game called AA:SF instead of making 2.0.
That's exactly what they did :) From Wikipedia:
Quote
America's Army 2
On November 6, 2003, version 2.0 of America's Army was released, with the full title of America's Army: Special Forces. In a booklet produced by the MOVES Institute an article by Wagner James Au explains that "the Department of Defense want to double the number of Special Forces soldiers, so essential in Afghanistan and northern Iraq; consequently, orders trickled down the chain of command and found application in the current release of America's Army."[13]

From what I've seen I like your pipeline with the re lighting  :up:
Thanks :)


I think we could move forward and modify the maps as long as gameplay stays the same because that's what people miss about AA2, the gameplay. By gameplay, I mostly mean the mechanics of the engine and code, not the layout of the maps. If we were to move ahead slowly and take 1 map at a time, I think we could do the right thing as long as we're careful and completely test each map. There will still be complaining though.
It's like shaving your pubes to make your junk look bigger.
Might look bigger, but it aint.....

Offline atx_mza

Re: Tournament maps
« Reply #36 on: Saturday, December 28, 2013, 20:28:47 PM »

[qoute]
I think we could move forward and modify the maps as long as gameplay stays the same because that's what people miss about AA2, the gameplay. By gameplay, I mostly mean the mechanics of the engine and code, not the layout of the maps. If we were to move ahead slowly and take 1 map at a time, I think we could do the right thing as long as we're careful and completely test each map. There will still be complaining though.
[/quote]


See this is where a competitive community is vitally needed. Testing.

Offline Spanky

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Re: Tournament maps
« Reply #37 on: Saturday, December 28, 2013, 20:30:26 PM »
See this is where a competitive community is vitally needed. Testing.

That is a problem we currently have, not many people to test the work being done and when releases do happen, people bitch because they weren't around to help in the first place.
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Offline atx_mza

Re: Tournament maps
« Reply #38 on: Saturday, December 28, 2013, 20:38:49 PM »
Will have a new pc in a week or so. Plan on downloading AA first night so I will be around to help.

Offline Spanky

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Re: Tournament maps
« Reply #39 on: Saturday, December 28, 2013, 20:41:41 PM »
Will have a new pc in a week or so. Plan on downloading AA first night so I will be around to help.
If I were you, I'd wait to download AA until we have the new version out. It should be within a week but it's hard to say.
It's like shaving your pubes to make your junk look bigger.
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Offline KiLLaMaN

Re: Tournament maps
« Reply #40 on: Saturday, December 28, 2013, 21:36:56 PM »
Go ahead. Change the maps and kill the game for some ploy to get more competitive players.

The project was supposed to preserve America's Army so people can play the game they loved. Since when did competitive players start taking precedent over those that play the game just to have fun? Hell Spanky, everything you hate about AA is what the competitive scene is. Supped up sound hardware, sound camping, glitching, custom visual settings to see farther, ini tweaking, and all that shit.

If you guys want to, go ahead and start changing everything, do it. See what happens. I hope it turns out well, but I doubt it will. You'll have to find some more people to change the maps though, I doubt Spanky would be willing to put in all the time by himself.
« Last Edit: Saturday, December 28, 2013, 21:56:22 PM by KiLLaMaN »

Offline -NicK.!

Re: Tournament maps
« Reply #41 on: Saturday, December 28, 2013, 22:02:28 PM »
The new maps are part of what killed this game before it grew in the first place. Sf maps are shit. Always have been shit, too much graphic demand... Escort missions are terrible for competition.. Etc.. The only thi they did do right with SF was the silenced m4. If there is any chance of getting this game out of the grave it's going to be with original/updated versions of 1.6-9maps. Mout McKenna, insurgent camp, weapons cache, pipeline, collapsed tunnel, hq raid maybe river basin. Maybe modify those maps to simplify objectives to make the maps more evenly sided. Game needs to be dumbed down so the average pubstar can understand how to play at a competitive level. Game is too small to divide the population with 20 maps...in its peak it was too small to do that.

TL.DR;    don't make the same mistakes the devs made by adding shitty maps before perfecting the great ones the game already has.
I think it's funny how you think adding more maps makes the game worse. I have a secret for you buddy, if you dont like them, you dont have to play them. If the maps were so shitty, no one would play them, but they do.

People who pub do so because they just want to relax and play some AA, its not because they dont understand how to play competitively, that's an ignorant statement at best. I feel your whole view of pubbing is just way off. I played comp for a bit, wasnt very good but i played and now all i really want to do is just pub with a few people and have some fun. It's not always about competition.

I'll just end with this, changing the regular maps to make them better for competition is just a bad idea. The only people who complain are a tiny amount of competitive players who make up a small portion of the community. The rest just want to play the maps they've come to know and love.

Offline Spanky

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Re: Tournament maps
« Reply #42 on: Saturday, December 28, 2013, 22:19:38 PM »
Hell Spanky, everything you hate about AA is what the competitive scene is. Supped up sound hardware, sound camping, glitching, custom visual settings to see farther, ini tweaking, and all that shit.

Not everything While that's a big component, the other side of the coin is that AA is non-dynamic. Each round, you know where the enemy spawns, you know everything between you and them and the only variables is that maybe they'll take a second longer to get to their spots or maybe they go a slightly different route. This is why I get bored with playing AA after 5 minutes. A key to true enjoyment would be to have random spawns and more dynamic content where whoring a map is much harder. Random spawns and random objectives will help out a lot in this aspect. Larger maps with more opportunities and routes will also help.
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Offline Goncalo

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Re: Tournament maps
« Reply #43 on: Saturday, December 28, 2013, 22:33:30 PM »
random spawns maybe good for pub, but worst thing for competition. Like courtyard, its a great map, but if one team has advantage on the spawns, it totally changes how game is fair.
too bad most of you dont know what is playing competition at the highest level, otherwise ud change completly ur opinion about the game and how it should be directed

Offline atx_mza

Re: Tournament maps
« Reply #44 on: Sunday, December 29, 2013, 00:06:39 AM »
Right. This is why 127 people are playing the game. Still going to download it and im sure I'll be called a cheater for pressing the crouch key too many times, if anyone who used to really play this game sees this pm me.

 

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