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Community => The Lounge => Topic started by: -Delta- on Friday, April 09, 2010, 03:47:21 AM

Title: Obama and Nukes
Post by: -Delta- on Friday, April 09, 2010, 03:47:21 AM
Here's what the NY Times says for those who don't know about this:

Quote from: nytimes
It eliminates much of the ambiguity that has deliberately existed in American nuclear policy since the opening days of the cold war. For the first time, the United States is explicitly committing not to use nuclear weapons against nonnuclear states that are in compliance with the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty, even if they attacked the United States with biological or chemical weapons or launched a crippling cyberattack.
Source (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/06/world/06arms.html)

To me, it seems stupid to let everyone know when and for what reason we would use our nukes.

What do you think?
Title: Re: Obama and Nukes
Post by: Spanky on Friday, April 09, 2010, 04:28:20 AM
See, that quote is more sane than you made it. It just says we won't bring a RPG to a pistol duel. We'll still have the best pistol around, don't worry. Besides, like I told you, IF someone even decides to start something, imagine the chances of you being targeted. They'll go for those city dwellers.

(https://aao25.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdl.dropbox.com%2Fu%2F464376%2FImages%2Flol%2Fobama_superman_awesome.jpg&hash=f41c758b64264f3b56deb6bba2cf0ec6)
Title: Re: Obama and Nukes
Post by: -Delta- on Friday, April 09, 2010, 04:31:00 AM
No you missed my point. My point was we want them to think we'll use them. That way it scares them too much to even think about launching a large scale attack on us.
Title: Re: Obama and Nukes
Post by: Spanky on Friday, April 09, 2010, 04:33:38 AM
I got that because you told me like 10 times. I don't know how I feel with that. I know that tactic worked on my dog (make him scared so he'll do what I want with commands and such) but countries? I dunno.
Title: Re: Obama and Nukes
Post by: -Delta- on Friday, April 09, 2010, 04:53:36 AM
I don't know, only time will tell how this has affected our enemies. But, why tell our enemies our game plan when it comes to defending ourselves?
Title: Re: Obama and Nukes
Post by: Knight on Friday, April 09, 2010, 08:11:52 AM
Would you attack a country with nukes if they have declared that they will nuke back? I don't think so....
Title: Re: Obama and Nukes
Post by: Alex on Friday, April 09, 2010, 09:36:31 AM
I say we nuke Obama. That would fix everything. :D

But seriously, I don't think it will matter much. No one is stupid enought to attack the US, it is still a death sentance with or without nukes. I honestly cannot see  us  nuking anyone for any reason short of them nuking us.
Title: Re: Obama and Nukes
Post by: Spanky on Friday, April 09, 2010, 12:40:13 PM
No one is stupid enought to attack the US, it is still a death sentance with or without nukes.

See what I mean. We still have the best pistol.
Title: Re: Obama and Nukes
Post by: -Delta- on Friday, April 09, 2010, 17:20:44 PM
The only way to really attack the US is by long range missile. Either that or an epic sea battle.  :)
Title: Re: Obama and Nukes
Post by: Knight on Friday, April 09, 2010, 18:15:01 PM
The only way to really attack the US is by long range missile. Either that or an epic sea battle.  :)

Star Wars
Title: Re: Obama and Nukes
Post by: Spanky on Friday, April 09, 2010, 18:19:14 PM
I just remembered Peter humming the theme.
Title: Re: Obama and Nukes
Post by: Spanky on Saturday, April 10, 2010, 01:43:28 AM
north korean icbm's will make short work of ur capital cities

I can't wait :)
Title: Re: Obama and Nukes
Post by: -Delta- on Saturday, April 10, 2010, 22:32:29 PM
Yeah, and North Korea can launch all the missiles they want without even a single bit of a threat of us launching a Nuke at them. Thanks to Obama they now know we won't. Obama needs to know, not everyone in this world can be trusted. Why would be trust them with military secrets? I don't know why Obama felt the need to even mess with our Nuke policy. Our allies knew we won't nuke them, but our enemies didn't.

Obama has it in his head that America is the problem. And American policy is why Muslims hate us so much. Yeah Obama, why we're at it, lets all conform to radical Islam.
Title: Re: Obama and Nukes
Post by: BlueBlaster on Saturday, April 10, 2010, 22:39:22 PM
Obama knows that Russia is just going to nuke whatever country nukes the US. We all know Russia wants first chance to fight next door neighbor USofA first.
Title: Re: Obama and Nukes
Post by: -Delta- on Saturday, April 10, 2010, 22:41:53 PM
I think we can still nuke nuclear states. It's the ones that don't have nukes that you have to worry about. Like a long range missile loaded with all kinds of bad.
Title: Re: Obama and Nukes
Post by: -Delta- on Saturday, April 10, 2010, 23:51:28 PM
But this was the point I was trying to make. We had nukes, nobody really knew our policy on using them. So our enemies were more confused before. Then good 'ol Obama went redefining our policy, while declaring it to the world. Now our enemies see it clearly, we won't use nukes on them unless they themselves have nukes. So, lug all the non-nuclear missiles you want at us. And another point, this whole ambiguity could have been what has been keeping another major war at bay. We go to war with North Korea, we better be ready to go to war with China.
Title: Re: Obama and Nukes
Post by: Alex on Sunday, April 11, 2010, 16:23:46 PM
But this was the point I was trying to make. We had nukes, nobody really knew our policy on using them. So our enemies were more confused before. Then good 'ol Obama went redefining our policy, while declaring it to the world. Now our enemies see it clearly, we won't use nukes on them unless they themselves have nukes. So, lug all the non-nuclear missiles you want at us. And another point, this whole ambiguity could have been what has been keeping another major war at bay. We go to war with North Korea, we better be ready to go to war with China.

lol, if anyone shot non-nuclear missiles at America their country would be taken over in a week. No one is stupid enough to attack the US or any other UN member. Obama's statements doesn't really have any affect as far as attacking us goes.

And remember, if North Korea invades South Korea, which is the only way we would go to war with North Korea, China may be friendly with them, but almost every UN country would be on our side. The odds would be far too great against China for them to take the risk of declaring war on the United States. I think in an occasion that North Korea invades South Korea, China will probably play smart and sit it out.
Title: Re: Obama and Nukes
Post by: Alex on Monday, April 12, 2010, 06:57:57 AM
like japan sat out in ww2?

That's a completely different situation. We didn't have many allies that could help us. Japan knew that most of Europe was held down by Germany so the Americans would be the only ones fighting them. If China declared war, the whole UN would likely declare war, depending on the circumstances of course.
Title: Re: Obama and Nukes
Post by: -Delta- on Monday, April 12, 2010, 23:26:09 PM
It's true. A smaller country probably wouldn't attack the US. We all saw what happened to Iraq for attacking us. We wiped the floor with them. But Obama is just asking for a war saying stuff like, "We won't use our nukes if you attack us." Bring it on Iran.
Title: Re: Obama and Nukes
Post by: Spanky on Monday, April 12, 2010, 23:29:33 PM
We all saw what happened to Iraq for attacking us.
Speaking as a person who doesn't read or watch the news... when did Iraq attack us?
Title: Re: Obama and Nukes
Post by: -Delta- on Monday, April 12, 2010, 23:36:49 PM
Speaking as a person who doesn't read or watch the news... when did Iraq attack us?

When their rogue terrorist organization attacked us. Not to mention they had a dictator in power.
Title: Re: Obama and Nukes
Post by: Spanky on Monday, April 12, 2010, 23:40:47 PM
Ok so, when was this?
Title: Re: Obama and Nukes
Post by: -Delta- on Monday, April 12, 2010, 23:43:33 PM
Was it Afghanistan that was harboring the terrorists?
Title: Re: Obama and Nukes
Post by: Alex on Tuesday, April 13, 2010, 07:01:42 AM
like japan sat out in ww2?

That's a completely different situation. We didn't have many allies that could help us. Japan knew that most of Europe was held down by Germany so the Americans would be the only ones fighting them. If China declared war, the whole UN would likely declare war, depending on the circumstances of course.

u do understand how much other countrys depend on chinas exports dont u

Yes, that gives China more incentive to sit out of a war. If everyone who buys China's stuff is at war with them, they can't sell it to them. Their economy will collapse.
Title: Re: Obama and Nukes
Post by: Archeh on Tuesday, April 13, 2010, 18:21:24 PM
He's implying that even American allies would be hesitant to go to war with a country they are dependent on in trade.
Title: Re: Obama and Nukes
Post by: Alex on Tuesday, April 13, 2010, 18:43:02 PM
He's implying that even American allies would be hesitant to go to war with a country they are dependent on in trade.

I got that, but seeing as both the U.S. and South Korea are part of the UN, the UN would easily back them if North Korea attacked. With the entire UN fighting North Korea, China would lose too much if they declared war. They would probably sit out.
Title: Re: Obama and Nukes
Post by: -Delta- on Wednesday, April 14, 2010, 20:49:09 PM
China is in the UN too.
Title: Re: Obama and Nukes
Post by: Alex on Wednesday, April 14, 2010, 21:18:31 PM
China is in the UN too.

That is true, but most UN countries would easily back the U.S. and South Korea if the North invaded . And once the UN countries are already in the war, China would have to think twice about entering it. The odds would be too much against them.
Title: Re: Obama and Nukes
Post by: Alex on Thursday, April 15, 2010, 06:53:58 AM
american troops are occupied, u would hope the un forces could stop them not your nations military u dont have the resources for another war

we already have over 20,000 troops in South Korea but I agree. The U.S. can't afford it.
Title: Re: Obama and Nukes
Post by: Alex on Thursday, April 15, 2010, 14:51:30 PM
north Korea can already hit seol with artillery and missiles, they prob wont even need to go to war, just hit there cities till they crumble, north Korea has the military south Korea has the economy, you cant say a south Korean warship can be sunk with total loss of life from trained sailors and put it down as an accident if south Korea said north Korea sunk it people would demand a war south Korea couldn't win. even with us troops south Korea is just a puppet

the reason china cant attack is they simply done have the means to transport there some 2-3 million strong army quickly enough and there fleets are aging (although they have a few new destroyers recently built) they have 1 nuclear sub but plenty of older subs, less then five thousand active aircraft.... thats why they wont attack, except

Quote
according to the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists and the SIPRI Yearbook 1999, the size of the Chinese nuclear arsenal is about 400 warheads. The Bulletin estimates that 20 nuclear-armed missiles are deployed in the intercontinental role, and another 230 nuclear weapons on deployed (or can be deployed) on aircraft, missiles, and submarines with regional capabilities. The 150 remaining nuclear warheads are believed to be reserved for "tactical" uses (short-range missiles, low yield aircraft-dropped bombs, and possibly artillery shells or demolition munitions).
Quote
China currently maintains a minimal intercontinental nuclear deterrent using land-based intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs). The Dong Feng-5 (DF-5) liquid-fueled missile, first deployed in 1981, has a range of 13,000 km and carries a single multi-megaton warhead. Twenty are believed to be deployed in central China, southwest of Beijing. Unlike China's earlier ballistic missiles, which were stored in caves and moved out for launch, the DF-5 can be launched directly from vertical silos—but only after a two-hour fueling process. In order to increase the survivability of the DF-5s, dummy silos are placed near the real silos. The DF-5's range gives it coverage of all of Asia and Europe, and most of the United States. The south-eastern US states are at the edge of the missile's range.


North Korea might have a big army but you forgot one important thing that helps win wars. Technology. North Korea does not have the technology the US and South Korea has. There is no certain way to tell the outcome of a North Korean-South Korean war because you must factor in Allies and technology. North Korea lacks a strong air force while the United States boasts the strongest air force in the world. North Korea doesn't have the technology to shoot down the superior planes of the U.S. That is a huge factor considering that the Air Force is a major contributor to U.S. warfare. South Korea and the U.S. also have superior guns and vehicles compared to North Korea.

As for China and nuclear weapons, they wouldn't dare using them. They are not stupid enough to start a nuclear war. No one is.
Title: Re: Obama and Nukes
Post by: -Delta- on Thursday, April 15, 2010, 15:12:34 PM
Nuclear weapons aren't to be used, they are to be feared. Unless you tell everyone your intentions, then they're just useless. 
Title: Re: Obama and Nukes
Post by: Archeh on Thursday, April 15, 2010, 21:43:54 PM
Infographics: always relevant.

(https://aao25.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdl.dropbox.com%2Fu%2F526167%2Frandom%2Finterestingly%2520random%2Fnorthkorea.jpg&hash=3bf2696f8ddceab2091807731b80adb5)
Title: Re: Obama and Nukes
Post by: JunK on Wednesday, December 28, 2011, 11:47:01 AM
Obama has it in his head that America is the problem. And American policy is why Muslims hate us so much. Yeah Obama, why we're at it, lets all conform to radical Islam.

I heard : Obama is a muslim...
Title: Re: Obama and Nukes
Post by: soupcakes on Thursday, February 16, 2012, 15:37:19 PM
I heard : Obama is a muslim...

lawl. either way, obama is just a puppet in a children's show.
Title: Re: Obama and Nukes
Post by: Go_Cat75 on Friday, February 17, 2012, 03:44:51 AM
See, that quote is more sane than you made it. It just says we won't bring a RPG to a pistol duel.

Not seen them apply that within the country don't think it will happen outside.
Title: Re: Obama and Nukes
Post by: Go_Cat75 on Friday, February 17, 2012, 03:48:32 AM
No one is stupid enought to attack the US, it is still a death sentance with or without nukes.

2 come straight to mind:

Bin laden &  Hussain.

Title: Re: Obama and Nukes
Post by: Spanky on Friday, February 17, 2012, 03:49:14 AM
2 come straight to mind:

Bin laden &  Hussain.

Dead & Dead.
Title: Re: Obama and Nukes
Post by: Go_Cat75 on Friday, February 17, 2012, 04:54:45 AM
Dead & Dead.

You mean Murdered & Executed so on the policy comments history tells us everything goes out the window and the US dont follow there own rules or policies when it comes to this type of situation.

One didn't get a trial and the other one got a trial which we already knew the outcome.  We know the world is better without them but it's a case of Do as we say not as we do.
 
Also both took more than 10 years to find.  That's a lot of time to do damage.



Title: Re: Obama and Nukes
Post by: Jonnym on Friday, February 17, 2012, 05:54:00 AM
People from the middle easy might want to.
Cos we keep starting wars over there.