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Author Topic: Global Warming - What's your opinion?  (Read 12159 times)

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-Delta-

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Re: Global Warming - What's your opinion?
« Reply #30 on: Wednesday, December 30, 2009, 21:48:07 PM »
So we should keep new life from coming into this world so we can live longer? I think that is the most selfish and disgusting thing I have ever heard. If you guys want population control, then I suggest you kill yourselves first. To enforce laws on people that tell them how many kids they can have is pure evil, and nothing less. I really don't think you realize what you're saying.

And just by chance there is something wrong with the current population level, then I suppose nature will take care of it.

Offline Spanky

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Re: Global Warming - What's your opinion?
« Reply #31 on: Wednesday, December 30, 2009, 22:04:37 PM »
So we should keep new life from coming into this world so we can live longer? I think that is the most selfish and disgusting thing I have ever heard. If you guys want population control, then I suggest you kill yourselves first. To enforce laws on people that tell them how many kids they can have is pure evil, and nothing less. I really don't think you realize what you're saying.

And just by chance there is something wrong with the current population level, then I suppose nature will take care of it.

I really don't get what you mean by your first statement... Is it your goal to have as many kids as possible as fast as possible before you die? We're talking about moderation, just because you can doesn't mean you should. We're not talking about killing kids off so that parents only have 1 or 2 kids, we're talking about prevention... condoms and other do-dads. How is it selfish to ask a couple to have maybe less than 10 kids so we as a population can maybe survive and grow enough food for ourselves? If we, and by we I mean those of us who think rationally about this subject, kill ourselves then that would drive the, for lack of better term, intelligence of the population down.

Your "god" or "nature" won't and can't take care of all your problems or our problems. We have to step in and intervene to the same degree if not more, in the opposite direction, that we would be by doing nothing at all. You and me have talked about this over MSN before and I don't really get it... how many people is too many in your mind? Are we supposed to walk on other people's heads before doing something?
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Offline Alex

Re: Global Warming - What's your opinion?
« Reply #32 on: Wednesday, December 30, 2009, 22:07:59 PM »
So we should keep new life from coming into this world so we can live longer? I think that is the most selfish and disgusting thing I have ever heard. If you guys want population control, then I suggest you kill yourselves first. To enforce laws on people that tell them how many kids they can have is pure evil, and nothing less. I really don't think you realize what you're saying.

And just by chance there is something wrong with the current population level, then I suppose nature will take care of it.

how is it evil to tell parents to not have too many kids? It's not like we are going to start killing kids randomly. And population control would NOT be to make us live longer, it would be to make Human Kind live longer. Our generation will probably not even see the full effects of global warming. Telling parents to not have too many kids is a small task if it makes human kind last longer.

-Delta-

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Re: Global Warming - What's your opinion?
« Reply #33 on: Wednesday, December 30, 2009, 22:49:50 PM »
We're not talking about killing kids off so that parents only have 1 or 2 kids.

You said something like "Those Americans that want oodles of kids should be taken out back and shot... or perhaps a one-child-per-couple kinda thing". Both are good ways to curb the population, but both aren't exactly humane. What happens if one couple has 2 kids? People have kids all the time that they didn't want, some of those people simply have the kid put to death, or "cancel" it. So I guess we would be talking about either killing the parents or the kid. I'm sure people would lobby to put the kid to death because the parents are more important, though. Or, I suppose, we could tolerate it, but what kind of example would that set?

Are we supposed to walk on other people's heads before doing something?

If it gets that bad, which I doubt. Then the world would either end, or we would just start killing one another. Since I'm the type that thinks God gives you kids, thus God decides how many kids you will have. I'm more inclined towards it not happening.

how is it evil to tell parents to not have too many kids? It's not like we are going to start killing kids randomly. And population control would NOT be to make us live longer, it would be to make Human Kind live longer. Our generation will probably not even see the full effects of global warming. Telling parents to not have too many kids is a small task if it makes human kind last longer.

I don't see global warming happening. The evidence isn't good at all. Sure you see those people on the TV saying "It's going to kill us all" and "Oh my! if we don't do something we will all die". Maybe even your teachers screamed it at you in school. But it's not going to happen, and if anything is happening, then it's probably a natural event. We've only been observing these things for a short time. And since the earth is "billions of years old", well in that case we really have no clue what is natural.

What you guys are proposing is what China is doing now, or similar. I don't know much about the laws China has on the matter, but given what China is known for, I'm sure they're not good. I guess we see differently, though.

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Re: Global Warming - What's your opinion?
« Reply #34 on: Wednesday, December 30, 2009, 23:29:21 PM »
Both are good ways to curb the population, but both aren't exactly humane. What happens if one couple has 2 kids? People have kids all the time that they didn't want, some of those people simply have the kid put to death, or "cancel" it. So I guess we would be talking about either killing the parents or the kid. I'm sure people would lobby to put the kid to death because the parents are more important, though. Or, I suppose, we could tolerate it, but what kind of example would that set?

Obvious joke on the first one. I don't see how the 2nd one is inhumane though... It's like saying that the speed limit in your area is inhumane because it takes you longer to get to work but yet saves lives. I can tell you're starting to bend this towards abortion and that's not really the argument here. If a couple has an extra kid above whatever limit is set, the kid can be put up for adoption. However again, that's not really the argument. The argument is prevention. It's not "kill the kid when it's born cuz you already have 2", it's "don't get knocked up, you're at the limit".

Since I'm the type that thinks God gives you kids, thus God decides how many kids you will have.

Wait, so eventually if I keep having sex and getting women pregnant, I'll hit "god's limit" that he's put on me? Someone missed biology/sex-ed.

I don't see global warming happening. The evidence isn't good at all. Sure you see those people on the TV saying "It's going to kill us all" and "Oh my! if we don't do something we will all die". Maybe even your teachers screamed it at you in school. But it's not going to happen, and if anything is happening, then it's probably a natural event. We've only been observing these things for a short time. And since the earth is "billions of years old", well in that case we really have no clue what is natural.

When it wasn't forced upon me, it wasn't "taught" in school because just like religion, it can't be proven. Also, just like religion, it can only be proven when it's too late. It's not really true that we're observing things for a short time but for the sake of my argument, I'll let that one slide and say that the scale can tip both ways. You may see the arguments/evidence of global warming and say "nah... not gonna happen" yet it may go the other way and be 100x worse than what we can imagine. Why take the chance?

but given what China is known for, I'm sure they're not good

If that's not racist... I dunno what is. What IS China known for?
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Offline Archeh

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Re: Global Warming - What's your opinion?
« Reply #35 on: Wednesday, December 30, 2009, 23:48:04 PM »
The standard of life in China is sub-par, and their form of socialism (just because it's the Communist Party doesn't mean that they have Communism) may be to blame. But Communism is NOT what is in China, and Communism in a utopia sense will never be achieved. The limit set in China was necessary for their country, and is becoming near-necessary elsewhere. I don't see any direct ties to global warming, but the subject could have drifted (I forget what was said in previous pages of this thread).

My opinion on what I've read:
Global Warming: Natural, intensified by human activity. Government intervention and carbon emission restrictions shouldn't conflict with Constitutional rights given to businesses.

Overpopulation: Again, government intervention shouldn't conflict with Constitutional rights. The population will always be rising and cities will always be growing. To cite my Sociology teacher: when cars were invented, people could get to work from farther away. Cities should get smaller, right? But, of course, they got bigger. If there was an invention that allowed you to teleport ANYWHERE to work, so you can live across the globe and go to work here, cities would STILL get larger. Overpopulation and metropolitan expansion cannot be stopped and there's no reason to restrict citizens' rights to attempt to do so.

I wanted to touch on abortion but really, this isn't the thread for that.
« Last Edit: Wednesday, December 30, 2009, 23:56:12 PM by AJ »
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-Delta-

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Re: Global Warming - What's your opinion?
« Reply #36 on: Thursday, December 31, 2009, 00:37:03 AM »
Obvious joke on the first one. I don't see how the 2nd one is inhumane though... It's like saying that the speed limit in your area is inhumane because it takes you longer to get to work but yet saves lives. I can tell you're starting to bend this towards abortion and that's not really the argument here. If a couple has an extra kid above whatever limit is set, the kid can be put up for adoption. However again, that's not really the argument. The argument is prevention. It's not "kill the kid when it's born cuz you already have 2", it's "don't get knocked up, you're at the limit".

Accidents happen, what if normal birth control methods fail in some way? And say the parents already had 2 kids. From what you're suggesting we would either cancel the pregnancy or just take the kid from its parents and give it to some other family. Based on the parents that might be easy, but some people wouldn't go along with it, and I guess we would have to arrest them for that. And then there's still the poor kid who was taken from his real family. It just doesn't sound like an ideal world.

Wait, so eventually if I keep having sex and getting women pregnant, I'll hit "god's limit" that he's put on me? Someone missed biology/sex-ed.

Well if that is the case, who knows in what way God would stop you. Maybe some how in an accident you would lose the ability to have kids. Or maybe you would be born without the ability in the first place. Or maybe some disease would kill you. I don't know, there are many ways.

The worlds population is still far from unsustainable, There are miles and miles of land that could be converted into farm land. How about a big useless city? They take up tons of room, and would produce tons of food if converted into a farm. How about all the room used up by highways, or national parks. There's still enough air for everybody, and food. I guess you could say food is lacking in some places, but that's more the fault of the location.

When it wasn't forced upon me, it wasn't "taught" in school because just like religion, it can't be proven. Also, just like religion, it can only be proven when it's too late. It's not really true that we're observing things for a short time but for the sake of my argument, I'll let that one slide and say that the scale can tip both ways. You may see the arguments/evidence of global warming and say "nah... not gonna happen" yet it may go the other way and be 100x worse than what we can imagine. Why take the chance?

The same scientist would say the world has been around for millions of years. Now I don't remember how long they say humans have been on this earth, but I'm sure it's nothing compared. We don't know if this is just a normal cycle of natural events or not. So I don't think we can say with any certainty that this is man made. I mean if we wanted to be sure, I guess we would have to stop producing carbon emissions. But, since almost everything is composed of carbon, and almost everything you burn emits carbon, it might be kinda hard.  

If that's not racist... I dunno what is. What IS China known for?

It would be racist if I were talking about the people, but I wasn't. I was talking about their government. Unless that's considered racist too?

China's government is known for all kinds of things. Like at one point they were communists--if they still aren't. They control almost every aspect of their peoples lives. Like for instance "The Great Firewall of China" which blocks and takes down anything opposing the government. The government just isn't very nice there.

Offline Archeh

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Re: Global Warming - What's your opinion?
« Reply #37 on: Thursday, December 31, 2009, 01:04:08 AM »
Quote from: Delta
*Lots of text, will quote when spoilers are added*

I agree with your main point but not with all of the ways you are going about defending them. I disagree with what Spanky and Killaman are suggesting not because of religious beliefs, but rather political beliefs and, to a lesser degree, morals. I definitely agree that it is not right to force adoption or abortion on a family whose third child was a result of failed birth control. However, I do not believe in a God or a karma for crossing "His" limits. Back to global warming, I agree that for now, believing it is man-made is just an assumption. Again, government intervention must be in a Constitutional manner and I just don't see that being possible, and if it is it will not do much to help the cause.

Back to overpopulation :P, China's implementation of the one-child policy has helped them, but has caused problems just as major. Couples who can only have one child always prefer a son; a son continues the family name, and - so I've heard - some Chinese believe that only by being buried by a son may you get into Heaven.
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Offline Alex

Re: Global Warming - What's your opinion?
« Reply #38 on: Thursday, December 31, 2009, 01:25:59 AM »
Global Warming is not man-made. It is more like man-helped. It was going to happen eventually, humans are just speeding up the process.

and about population control. I do think that taking kids away from their families or killing them in unmoral and just not right. That would be the wrong way to go about it. The trick is to get the population to only want 2 kids. Maybe a tax incentive or something?

The problem with overpopulation is not that there is not enough room for all of the people, it is that the earth can't provide enough resources for all of the people on earth. The way I see it is either we implement population control, or further down the line the human population suffers from mass hunger and there isn't enough food and water to give to all human beings. Which will it be?

-Delta-

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Re: Global Warming - What's your opinion?
« Reply #39 on: Thursday, December 31, 2009, 01:27:21 AM »
I do not believe in a God or a karma for crossing "His" limits.

I don't know exactly what you meant by that. But lets try not to make that sound bad. I don't know if God has set a limit. I just don't believe God will let us destroy ourselves. Whether a government imposed limit is what God intended, I don't know. But I can't see that being Gods plan. God does let bad things happen, though.

Sorry for turning this into a religious post, but it's kinda the whole influence behind my argument.

Offline Spanky

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Re: Global Warming - What's your opinion?
« Reply #40 on: Thursday, December 31, 2009, 01:49:33 AM »
Man... where to start... I'm not sure but I'm feeling a little Emeril-ish tonight.

AJ have you lived in China? I haven't and thus can't comment on the quality of life they live. BOOM.

Opinions vary but I believe the BBC to be one of the finest and less-biased broadcasters there is. Their journalism and documentaries are superb. With that said, I suggest that those who would like learn a little about the sustainability of food and the inability to feed everyone on the planet currently to check out a mini-series they did called Future of Food. It opens your eyes and makes you think. BOOM.

Another fine BBC mini-series would be Earth The Climate Wars. It shows both sides of the argument and definitely showed/taught me several things that I had not thought of or heard of previously. With all this BBC praise you might think this is where I get all my information and this is the only source I trust. It isn't. I watch/listen/read many articles biased and unbiased from both sides and then form my own opinion on the matter with the information I have at hand. BOOM.

Constitutional rights is a tough issue. It's really like a new bible that is taken too far and has a lot of ideas that weren't necessarily made for nor suit our current society. I'm not a freedom hater, I think it's alright but I haven't lived in any other country so I don't really have much of an idea on how much I might appreciate it. I guess that aspect of me is a bit of my dwindling "spoiled american"? One could argue that a lot of laws take away some form of freedom that the constitution gives. If laws and government intervention helps people, it's country and humanity, is it unconstitutional? Sure. But we can't live a worry free life, some (or all, depending on the situation) have to give a little to get freedom, the finest example I can think of is our armed forces. Another thing that maybe Mr. Unconstitutional didn't think of is that your right to do what you want can affect everybody else's right to do what they want. I could give plenty of examples but I don't want to derail the thread further. Bottom line, pull your head out of your ass and think about the future. BOOM.


I guess I'm here coming up with progressive and easy ways to solve future problems and the problem I have is you're not contributing anything. It's either "unconstitutional" or "god will take care of it" or "i don't know". I would be scared as hell if I thought like that, nothing could get done.


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Offline Dialects

Re: Global Warming - What's your opinion?
« Reply #41 on: Thursday, December 31, 2009, 02:01:48 AM »
Nate, maybe you could create thread per subject instead?

- God and Religion Morals
- Global Warming Issue
- Pollution and its Effects
- Population & Population Control
- Constitutional & Politics
"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his." - George S. Patton

-Delta-

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Re: Global Warming - What's your opinion?
« Reply #42 on: Thursday, December 31, 2009, 02:03:05 AM »
I'm gonna step out of this conversation. I don't believe like you guys at all, nor is arguing with you going to help. I guess I'll go along with whatever comes about. If any of you have read the bible you know my stand on these matters.

Thor

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Re: Global Warming - What's your opinion?
« Reply #43 on: Thursday, December 31, 2009, 02:31:36 AM »
im with u delta  >:(

Offline BlueBlaster

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Re: Global Warming - What's your opinion?
« Reply #44 on: Thursday, December 31, 2009, 17:31:01 PM »
lol, the Bible.



 

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