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Assist => Support => Topic started by: guily6669 on Tuesday, February 04, 2014, 21:52:35 PM

Title: Please add Creative EAX support
Post by: guily6669 on Tuesday, February 04, 2014, 21:52:35 PM
Hey there mates.

I have a creative sound card, and on windows 7 we need to use creative Alchemy, but it adds a dsound.dll which AA25Assist reports as a Alien file.

Isn't there a way you could add 3D EAX audio support by adding that .dll to the list?
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Title: Re: Please add Creative EAX support
Post by: Spanky on Tuesday, February 04, 2014, 21:55:38 PM
I missed you guily :) <3


I'm sure it can be done. Even if Assist has to install it by default and MD5 it to make sure it's not something else.
Title: Re: Please add Creative EAX support
Post by: guily6669 on Tuesday, February 04, 2014, 22:25:19 PM
missed you all too. Sound wars...  :up:. :D

I haven't played any pc game for years already. A friend came here, and I had a very outdated AA25assist (I wanted to show him the game).

Just updated today, saw that now there is trainings ("WOW").


After doing the training fast, joined a server and WTF a map inside hehe :shock:.


I WOULD PAY 50 EUR FOR AA2 WITH NOWADAYS IMPROVED PHYSICS AND GRAPHICS (Hope AA4 ever comes and I hope they make the same as AA2, because AA3 is stupid and clearly made for kids :( ).

ps: Nice work guys  :style: Keep it up!
I'm sure it can be done. Even if Assist has to install it by default and MD5 it to make sure it's not something else.
That's exactly what I was asking.

It adds 3 files. The ".dll", a ".txt" log and a ".ini".

ps: I can upload the .dll and the .ini files if you guys need.
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Title: Re: Please add Creative EAX support
Post by: Jared on Tuesday, February 04, 2014, 22:39:43 PM
It shouldn't be a requirement for windows 7.

AA2 doesn't even support it correctly if i remember right, what issues are you having?
Title: Re: Please add Creative EAX support
Post by: guily6669 on Tuesday, February 04, 2014, 22:49:20 PM
It shouldn't be a requirement for windows 7.

AA2 doesn't even support it correctly if i remember right, what issues are you having?
It's not really an issue... EAX just doesn't work on windows 7.

Creative came around with a solution long time ago, adding "Creative Alchemy" that converts directsound and it can restore EAX sound effects of any older game.


But it adds a .dll and assist just shut down the whole game because the anti-cheat protections kicks in reporting dsound.dll from creative as a alien file.


ps: Activating 3D hardware in-game doesn't make any difference on wind7 because it needs creative .dll to work. And it actually make a whole different sound when it's active (each room sounds really way different from each other).
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Title: Re: Please add Creative EAX support
Post by: [SWISS]Merlin on Wednesday, February 05, 2014, 04:09:33 AM
I WOULD PAY 50 EUR FOR AA2 WITH NOWADAYS IMPROVED PHYSICS AND GRAPHICS (Hope AA4 ever comes and I hope they make the same as AA2, because AA3 is stupid and clearly made for kids :( ).

where have you been all the time guily?
because AA4 is out - to play it, it is more from AA3 then from AA2.
Title: Re: Please add Creative EAX support
Post by: krIz+ on Wednesday, February 05, 2014, 07:01:49 AM
alchemy does nothing, dont even bother
Title: Re: Please add Creative EAX support
Post by: WORLDCHANCELLOR on Wednesday, February 05, 2014, 09:32:44 AM
The same sound from XP still exists with AA, X-Fi, and Windows 7. If you have an x-fi and played AA prior to Win 7, you typically had to turn your CMSS-3D to 100% "Surround" when in Entertainment Mode. In Windows 7, turn the CMSS-3D thing all the way to the opposite direction, 0% (Front). The sound should be fixed.
Title: Re: Please add Creative EAX support
Post by: guily6669 on Wednesday, February 05, 2014, 10:14:10 AM
where have you been all the time guily?
because AA4 is out - to play it, it is more from AA3 then from AA2.
What? OMG... Screw them, again same crap. Lost my hope now  :makemyday:.
alchemy does nothing, dont even bother
I'm sure you never tried it then. I tried it and it sounds totally 100% exactly the same as it sound like on Wind XP by hardware + EAX.

Without it, activating 3D, Software, HW+3D, it does the same sound effect without creative alchemy on wind7.

And actually even just the AA main menu alone already sound different with direct sound EAX.

ps: Alchemy only work for creative soundcards with EAX (or probably any other sound card with Creative EAX in it, like my auzentech have).
The same sound from XP still exists with AA, X-Fi, and Windows 7. If you have an x-fi and played AA prior to Win 7, you typically had to turn your CMSS-3D to 100% "Surround" when in Entertainment Mode. In Windows 7, turn the CMSS-3D thing all the way to the opposite direction, 0% (Front). The sound should be fixed.
Newer cards don't support CMSS anymore, and still if the card have not got EAX support it won't ever activate EAX on EAX supported games.

If you go on youtube you will see the difference of EAX. For example in some games you talk with your mic, and your voice on every single room will sound totally different from each other

EAX isn't really much related to 3D, but more with the ambient, making every room to be 100% different from other.

ps: I'm using a crap Creative X-fi Go Pro USB at the moment, because I don't have space for my auzentech X-fi on my board with this bloody crap 3 slot GPU...
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Title: Re: Please add Creative EAX support
Post by: WORLDCHANCELLOR on Wednesday, February 05, 2014, 11:03:12 AM
I know EAX is the reverberation stuff, but in times before, everyone looked at it as pertaining to the CMSS-3D thing, likely because it was widely suggested to turn on Hardware 3D Audio + EAX in AA. But who in the world wants reverb in AA. Reverb, by its nature washes out sound and makes it smeared. In this game, you wanna be able to hear.
Title: Re: Please add Creative EAX support
Post by: guily6669 on Wednesday, February 05, 2014, 11:33:55 AM
Well... You won't ever have 3D hardware sound on AA under Wind7.

Hardware direct sound are disabled on wind7. With Creative alchemy you can unlock the full quality back.

I just made a video with the difference in sound quality with Hardware sound vs software sound (which is only what you all hear in AA, since you activating hardware in AA it doesn't make a single difference under Wind7 since it doesn't support it).


SEE MY VIDEO:

AA2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ndEtzOPAiE#ws)
(WATCH THE WHOLE VIDEO IN 1080P)


It's not just reverbs. AA will sound totally different.

Guns sound way more metallic, more crystal clear, and you can clearly hear a lot more frequency range (they go way higher frequency than the original software sound effects). Sound effects have higher quality bit rate.

ps: I'm sure Spanky will hear the difference right away since he is a "sound man"  :D
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Title: Re: Please add Creative EAX support
Post by: teddy_grizzly_bear on Wednesday, February 05, 2014, 11:41:05 AM
For me it sounded just like a lot of echos.

But I'm a dimwit when it comes to sound ;)
Title: Re: Please add Creative EAX support
Post by: guily6669 on Wednesday, February 05, 2014, 11:50:52 AM
For me it sounded just like a lot of echos.

But I'm a dimwit when it comes to sound ;)
It's not just echos... (the rooms kinda sound like it would on real life).

But I also don't like much the echos.

However every other sound effect have way higher quality than software audio.

Even in the menu, when you move your mouse into options it makes a higher sample quality effect than without directsound support.


ps: And you can remove the echos and still have all the new higher quality sound effects by just simply chosing Hardware 3D audio instead of hardware + EAX (without creative alchemy you can chose them, but it makes no difference, unless you are playing on wind XP, you need alchemy to have directsound on wind7...).
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Title: Re: Please add Creative EAX support
Post by: Koden on Wednesday, February 05, 2014, 12:33:01 PM
I can see another sound quality discussion incoming. Btw, did you even notice the difference between some of the rooms inside the building? I mean, the "echos" in the rooms/corridors at the ground floor and the lack of em in that tiny room at the 1st floor. I don't think this game ever fully supported EAX.
Title: Re: Please add Creative EAX support
Post by: Spanky on Wednesday, February 05, 2014, 12:47:50 PM
America's Army definitely supports EAX. The problem is, the AA devs didn't always implement it or fully use it in all maps. Some maps just have reverb effects set up in some rooms/areas. Pipeline is setup a bit from what I remember.
Title: Re: Please add Creative EAX support
Post by: WORLDCHANCELLOR on Wednesday, February 05, 2014, 12:48:53 PM
I'm an audio engineer. :-/
Title: Re: Please add Creative EAX support
Post by: guily6669 on Wednesday, February 05, 2014, 13:06:13 PM
LOL...

But like I said, you don't need to use EAX.

Just by using Hardware sound makes a whole different level of sound quality in the game, and doesn't add any more reverb since EAX is off (you chose to activate or not in-game on audio settings...).


The thing is if we can have hardware sound support in the game, I think the "dsound.dll" should also be added to aa25assist with md5 hash protection in it.


And the sound quality change a lot from sound card to sound card, since I remember using my very old creative sound blaster 24bit live or something like that, years ago, and it made a totally different AA hardware sound than my little modern creative X-fi Go Pro USB.

This one support EAX HD even though it's not much good. The older creative would fail on some effects under AA hardware sound.


Adding creative alchemy is just a plus. You can enable\disable, and put the sound quality as you like, so it doesn't make any difference for people that don't want the hardware sound quality in the game (you can even activate\deactivate in-game by chosing HW or 3d audio only which disables hardware).

Also if you don't install creative alchemy, you won't ever have hardware sound under win7 on this game, so it doesn't make any difference for most people by addind the ".dll" to aa25assist (I mean it won't make people to have reverbs by just adding support for it...)
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Title: Re: Please add Creative EAX support
Post by: ELiZ on Wednesday, February 05, 2014, 13:28:22 PM
So in short you want us to enable that some people to hear better than others?
Better if we try to keep the playing field as even as possible, not to go out of our way to enable more difference.
Title: Re: Please add Creative EAX support
Post by: guily6669 on Wednesday, February 05, 2014, 13:38:20 PM
So in short you want us to enable that some people to hear better than others?
Better if we try to keep the playing field as even as possible, not to go out of our way to enable more difference.
It doesn't give any advantage... It's the same sound, just have improved bit rate with more frequency into them (sound quality)...

If you hear a 64kbps mp3 and a 128kbps on the same encoder, you will hear what I mean.

And actually if I play AA on WindXP on my older laptop, I actually play with HARDWARE SOUND + EAX with my creative card (They work right away on windXP without needing creative alchemy)...


ps: Only wind Vista and above have hardware sound disabled into them, and creative alchemy just restore that for the older games (since modern games also don't support it).
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Title: Re: Please add Creative EAX support
Post by: Spanky on Wednesday, February 05, 2014, 15:27:50 PM
Guily I think you're talking shit again.

ELiZ, all he wants is dsound.dll to not be deleted. All it does is give you environmental effects such as reverb, delay, slight ambient sounds. It just makes it more immersive. It does not let you hear further or glitch out the system.

Of course the difference between software and hardware is noticeable. This engine was built when single-core CPU's were roaming about and they wanted to minimize the load on the CPU. Software means it's rendered on the CPU, hardware means it's rendered on... other hardware. Whether or not it actually works these days is debatable but more than likely, Epic Games has more advanced settings for hardware such as higher channel count, less lossy renders and probably other stuff.