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America's Army => Clans, Matches & Scrims => Matches & Scrims => Topic started by: Ganja on Wednesday, December 04, 2013, 06:02:34 AM

Title: Tournament maps
Post by: Ganja on Wednesday, December 04, 2013, 06:02:34 AM
As you all probably know, there's actually a 4 vs 4 tournament going on, called Fun League Community.

It's a 4 vs 4 tournament, played on Insurgent Camp and Urban Assault. In the last few days I saw people on urban and IC that I had never seen before (swiss, puf,...) and I think it's a good thing.

So I'm proposing to take all the unplayed map for the next tournament, so people will play on it again, and servers will be populated where they were not these last years.

Those maps should be river bassin, headquarters or swamp, Oasis, village, those kind of maps.

Just shared an opinion, I hope it will be taken into consideration
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: Bart! on Wednesday, December 04, 2013, 06:11:37 AM
I still think most sf maps are bad for competition, I would try to get the classic maps being played again

different kind of maps:

Dark: HQ raid (woodland/swamp)
VIP: mountain ambush
(SF) assault vs assault: SF Sandstorm, urban, MOUT
Multiple obj possibilities: Pipe, IC
Long distance: Bridge SE
advanced nade and close combat maps: Weapons Cache (SE)
Close combat, spam and flash map: Tunnel


Those all have their own style of playing, which in my opinion is good because of seeing who the best player is helps in this case.

The problem I have with most sf maps is that they are too defense sided, as well as being too easy to aim with.
Random maps I would keep out due to the lucky team having higher chance of winning, thats not really competitive
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: Ganja on Wednesday, December 04, 2013, 06:25:49 AM
Well depends on what kind of tournament you're looking for.

As the name states it's a fun league, so in my opinion it's not a problem if it's not 'competitive' as you call it. But ok, I understand that a lot of players play for the competition only.

Now I was more referring to teams training on those maps, than the tournament itself. By giving them every tournament only 2-3 maps to play on, they will train only those, and it will populated more original maps.

I understand that playing extraction or dockside or courtyard can be a disadvantage for 'pro teams' because they can lose against noob teams, but hey this ain't ESL or something ;)

There could also be different tournaments going on like 'long range tournament' where you will have bridge SE like you said, or river bassin or moutain pass.

There could be a random spawn tournament going on with dockside, extraction, pcr, courtyard.

Or also a vip tournament with Hospital, mountain ambush, dusk and whatsoever.

Just stating the fact that this tournament could have a major impact on the maps played nowadays
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: SASF-DarkShooter on Wednesday, December 04, 2013, 06:31:35 AM
Long range maps? Let's play SF Recon :D
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: Saltuarius on Wednesday, December 04, 2013, 06:42:43 AM
ya good idea ganja.
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: KARI-30 on Wednesday, December 04, 2013, 07:13:33 AM
Thats great to have some suggestions about the next season. We like the idea to play maps that are not played that often or at all. We also wanted to start a season which would have only maps that were in the 1.0 version, but I wasnt able to find which ones were there. I like the idea of having Mountain Ambush in the next cup, quite nice outdoor tactical map. So we could have one long range and one close combat map, for close combat Dusk?
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: ELiZ on Wednesday, December 04, 2013, 07:35:53 AM
Thats great to have some suggestions about the next season. We like the idea to play maps that are not played that often or at all. We also wanted to start a season which would have only maps that were in the 1.0 version, but I wasnt able to find which ones were there. I like the idea of having Mountain Ambush in the next cup, quite nice outdoor tactical map. So we could have one long range and one close combat map, for close combat Dusk?

Original 1.0, ArmyOps Recon Maps
Quote
Bridge
HQ_Raid
Insurgent_Camp
MOUT_McKenna
Pipeline
Tunnel

Feel nostalgic?
ftp://ftp.stack.nl/pub/users/davidd/client/ArmyOpsRecon.exe
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: krIz+ on Wednesday, December 04, 2013, 10:15:27 AM
if you all up for a sandstorm tournament, i will consider to play aa2 again :D
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: Yahoo on Wednesday, December 04, 2013, 10:26:14 AM
if you all up for a wc se tournament, i will consider to play aa2 again :D

 
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: Possessed on Wednesday, December 04, 2013, 10:27:15 AM
2 many ppl, UB sub. still active eh? :P
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: krIz+ on Wednesday, December 04, 2013, 10:32:19 AM

wcse is an awesome map tbh, way better balanced than normal wc.
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: Bart! on Wednesday, December 04, 2013, 11:13:53 AM
Long range maps? Let's play SF Recon :D
Long range sf still is totally different compared to long range rifle :D
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: Yahoo on Wednesday, December 04, 2013, 11:23:06 AM
In my opinion is the best match map in america's army 2, great balance, plenty different ways of attacking and defending, mixed with cqb and lr...
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: Bart! on Wednesday, December 04, 2013, 11:31:52 AM
In my opinion is the best match map in america's army 2, great balance, plenty different ways of attacking and defending, mixed with cqb and lr...
I agree, wc se is a nice mix of everything. Nading, 203, cqb and distance fighting. The only thing missing is a parachute ;)
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: -[unR]BENDAWICH on Wednesday, December 04, 2013, 13:23:35 PM
Easy to play as a rat on wc se on defense. i.e hide in the most random place as assault need the 3 objs to win. But i suppose you can do that on a few assault/defense maps.
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: KARI-30 on Wednesday, December 04, 2013, 14:14:25 PM
How about ESL Dusk?
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: Goncalo on Wednesday, December 04, 2013, 15:33:42 PM
imo it should be in the map list. Dusk is already a great map, esl version just made it better to play matches. there was alot of discussion when this map was created, and it had so much positive feedback from all the competition players
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: ArmyAntiCheat on Wednesday, December 04, 2013, 17:34:11 PM
Make each tournament with different style.
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: bollie on Wednesday, December 04, 2013, 18:35:47 PM
Esl dusk! Loved it!
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: Ganja on Thursday, December 05, 2013, 02:17:16 AM
Make each tournament with different style.
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: [SWISS]Merlin on Thursday, December 05, 2013, 03:20:45 AM
Make each tournament with different style.
+1
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: Ganja on Thursday, December 05, 2013, 06:05:53 AM
Make each tournament with different style.

if you all up for a sandstorm tournament, i will consider to play aa2 again :D

"The Eardestroying Tournament"

2 maps. Sandstorm and Water Treatment :)
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: KARI-30 on Thursday, December 05, 2013, 06:20:30 AM
Overtime map Shipment :D
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: atx_mza on Saturday, December 28, 2013, 18:16:57 PM
The new maps are part of what killed this game before it grew in the first place. Sf maps are shit. Always have been shit, too much graphic demand... Escort missions are terrible for competition.. Etc.. The only thi they did do right with SF was the silenced m4. If there is any chance of getting this game out of the grave it's going to be with original/updated versions of 1.6-9maps. Mout McKenna, insurgent camp, weapons cache, pipeline, collapsed tunnel, hq raid maybe river basin. Maybe modify those maps to simplify objectives to make the maps more evenly sided. Game needs to be dumbed down so the average pubstar can understand how to play at a competitive level. Game is too small to divide the population with 20 maps...in its peak it was too small to do that.

TL.DR;    don't make the same mistakes the devs made by adding shitty maps before perfecting the great ones the game already has.
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: Alex on Saturday, December 28, 2013, 18:22:53 PM
The new maps are part of what killed this game before it grew in the first place. Sf maps are shit. Always have been shit, too much graphic demand... Escort missions are terrible for competition.. Etc.. The only thi they did do right with SF was the silenced m4. If there is any chance of getting this game out of the grave it's going to be with original/updated versions of orignal maps. Mout McKenna, insurgent camp, weapons cache, pipeline, hq raid maybe river basin or mountain ambush. Maybe modify those maps to simplify objectives to make the maps more evenly sided. Game needs to be dumbed down so the average pubstar can understand how to play at a competitive level. Game is too small to divide the population with 20 maps...in its peak it was too small to do that.

TL.DR;    don't make the same mistakes the devs made by adding shitty maps before perfecting the great ones the game already has.
There were 2 things that were promised when this project started. The first being that we would never do anything to change the core gameplay of America's Army. The second being that we would never change any of the original maps that people love. We made that promise to the community and I doubt they will turn back on it now. You're the first person in favor of editing the regular maps I've seen so it is not going to be done.

Look, AA is an old game. News players are going to be hard to come by. Most of the people that play this game now are old timers that just want to play the game they have always loved. If we take that away by changing the game a bunch, what are we left with? No players.
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: atx_mza on Saturday, December 28, 2013, 18:37:56 PM
There were 2 things that were promised when this project started. The first being that we would never do anything to change the core gameplay of America's Army. The second being that we would never change any of the original maps that people love. We made that promise to the community and I doubt they will turn back on it now. You're the first person in favor of editing the regular maps I've seen so it is not going to be done.

Look, AA is an old game. News players are going to be hard to come by. Most of the people that play this game now are old timers that just want to play the game they have always loved. If we take that away by changing the game a bunch, what are we left with? No players.

Im more saying getting rid of maps completley and re releasing them when it makes sense for the game to have that many maps. The editing of maps is strictly a competitive idea since I know a lot of the shit talk I'd hear about AA competition was about the multi obj, not knowing what objective to do or being able to call strats. I downloaded America's army in 1.3 and saw it grow to become a very popular game from 1.6 to 2.0 only to have to be present for destruction by the dev team and pub community by 2.6. Games need a competitive scene in order to gain the popularity needed to grow the game for the average users, no one listened to us competive players then and look what happened. Counterstrike was a mod of a game called Gary's mod We need to make our game a mod of Americas army and start from the basics
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: Spanky on Saturday, December 28, 2013, 19:06:21 PM
Sf maps are shit. Always have been shit, too much graphic demand...

How old is your computer? Seriously.
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: atx_mza on Saturday, December 28, 2013, 19:15:50 PM
How old is your computer? Seriously.


You're crones/chris right? I played at Chicago LAN with you I was one of the last who stayed playing.  Are you forgetting how many competitive players had to stop playing because they didn't want to spend 1500 dollars to get a new gaming rig to play the new versions of AA. You would get 100 fps weapons cache and then log into hospital and get 35 fps with a brand new pc let alone a shitty one. No game should have that much of an fps difference for maps. SF maps were never played competitively unless it was on the twl SF ladder lol
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: Dialects on Saturday, December 28, 2013, 19:20:17 PM
It is irrelevant to touch this subject. No matter which way we --I say we because I too am a firm believer that maps should be hugely reconsidered, revamped and brought down to a one figure digit-- go about this subject, the current Assist Leaders will outright dismiss it.

It is a shame. A shame because were it not for the competitive players that lived to see the bright days of AA and saw in it a truly strategical and tactical FPS like no other are ultimately responsible for having kept AA alive to these days.

I am glad that you have put the effort. Albeit great as it may be --and of the 100% support I'd be willing to give you and other competitive players alike--, we're essentially left with a solid and round no.

/Dan
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: Spanky on Saturday, December 28, 2013, 19:26:53 PM
I'm Nate, I've never been to Chicago. I was never part of the competitive scene (I play for fun). Your statements may be true if you're talking 5-7 years ago but not today. I run a 5 year old graphics card that you can pick up on eBay for under $40 easily and while I don't hold a steady 60 FPS everywhere, all the stock maps are very playable at 1680x1050 fullscreen with all settings on high. I just checked Hospital and looking anywhere on the map I get a solid 60, it will drop if I start throwing smokes but it stays above 40. Again, that's a 5 year old GPU on full settings at slightly less than 1080p.

The issue with Weapons Cache versus SF Hospital is that Hospital came out a fair bit later than WC and thus technology had advanced since then. Weapons Cache is a pretty basic design map that is very easy to optimize and run efficiently. Hospital has terrain and a lot of meshes, lighting effects and complex shapes to cope with and isn't as easily optimized.

Mikawe, I would like to edit stock maps and improve them visually as well as fix bugs and add things players would like to see. The problem is, the shitstorm of complaints that come up with even editing minor things isn't worth it. Remember what happened when I added railing and slightly changed the layout of the roof on Hospital? Just a minor place in the map that, on some rounds, isn't even used. The people went apeshit.
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: Dialects on Saturday, December 28, 2013, 19:41:34 PM
Quote
Mikawe, I would like to edit stock maps and improve them visually as well as fix bugs and add things players would like to see. The problem is, the shitstorm of complaints that come up with even editing minor things isn't worth it. Remember what happened when I added railing and slightly changed the layout of the roof on Hospital? Just a minor place in the map that, on some rounds, isn't even used. The people went apeshit.

People bitch, period. Especially the ones that play America's Army. What do we make out of that? I'd take constructive feedback like the one atx_mza, utRoda and other competitive players have been giving over the usual moaning and bitching the rest of the users may provide.

I understand how this can be a two-edged sword. On one hand come the worries that we'll loose players if we mess with maps while on the other hand comes to long-term realisation that if we let AA sit as was/is, we'll definitely be walking towards a dead end. I'd rather bring the new twist sooner than later, attempting to gather newcoming interest, momentum and the likes from the competitive scene.

My perspective has always been the same. Take AA and create something new with it. Being a standoff for the good old times simply won't cut it anymore --or even if it does, its death will remain at the mercy of time.
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: atx_mza on Saturday, December 28, 2013, 19:56:17 PM

The issue with Weapons Cache versus SF Hospital is that Hospital came out a fair bit later than WC and thus technology had advanced since then. Weapons Cache is a pretty basic design map that is very easy to optimize and run efficiently. Hospital has terrain and a lot of meshes, lighting effects and complex shapes to cope with and isn't as easily optimized.


Which is why it is shit and killed a blooming game. FPS should be constant map to map. AA was popular when you could download it off file front in an hour and run it on a toaster oven. Its a fact that game started dying day one of 2.0 and only took .5 versions to bury it. If you keep trying to revive the pieces of the game that killed it you'll never succeed. This is not me disregarding your amazing work with trying to keep it alive or being disrespectful to pub players. unless you are actually a member of the original [DEV] team, those guys can suck it. Just the opinions of someone who has played this game at the highest level and saw the demise first hand.
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: atx_mza on Saturday, December 28, 2013, 19:58:33 PM
Graphics and new maps should never take precident over gameplay. That's what the devs made the mistake on and unfortunately it seems the revive may be going to same way
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: Spanky on Saturday, December 28, 2013, 20:00:41 PM
I never really saw the demise, I always hung back a few versions and just played for fun, plus it seems like I came along after a lot of the other people here did oddly enough.

I think you're being a bit harsh when talking about SF maps, especially Hospital and CSAR which seem to be pretty popular.

What we need is a thread to start fresh where tangible ideas are discussed and listed out. Figure out a direction to take this game and then allow the users to vote on it (which will be a lot easier when the new Assist comes out).

FYI, none of us were ever part of any of the dev teams, we're all just fans :)

Graphics and new maps should never take precident over gameplay. That's what the devs made the mistake on and unfortunately it seems the revive may be going to same way
You ain't kidding, that's why nobody plays my version of Pipeline...
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: atx_mza on Saturday, December 28, 2013, 20:13:25 PM
I never really saw the demise, I always hung back a few versions and just played for fun, plus it seems like I came along after a lot of the other people here did oddly enough.

I think you're being a bit harsh when talking about SF maps, especially Hospital and CSAR which seem to be pretty popular.

What we need is a thread to start fresh where tangible ideas are discussed and listed out. Figure out a direction to take this game and then allow the users to vote on it (which will be a lot easier when the new Assist comes out).

FYI, none of us were ever part of any of the dev teams, we're all just fans :)
You ain't kidding, that's why nobody plays my version of Pipeline...


Don't get me wrong a couple of the SF Maps are good maps sandstorm is really good competive and hospital is very fun to pub on. It's the fact that you need signifigantly higher PC performance to run those maps than you do to run the base maps.. They really should have put out a new game called AA:SF instead of making 2.0. So I am being harsh on the maps themselves when I should be harsh on the changes they made to every other part of the game so they could shove the maps into a game that wasn't equipped for them.

From what I've seen I like your pipeline with the re lighting  :up:
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: Spanky on Saturday, December 28, 2013, 20:21:30 PM
They really should have put out a new game called AA:SF instead of making 2.0.
That's exactly what they did :) From Wikipedia:
Quote
America's Army 2
On November 6, 2003, version 2.0 of America's Army was released, with the full title of America's Army: Special Forces. In a booklet produced by the MOVES Institute an article by Wagner James Au explains that "the Department of Defense want to double the number of Special Forces soldiers, so essential in Afghanistan and northern Iraq; consequently, orders trickled down the chain of command and found application in the current release of America's Army."[13]

From what I've seen I like your pipeline with the re lighting  :up:
Thanks :)


I think we could move forward and modify the maps as long as gameplay stays the same because that's what people miss about AA2, the gameplay. By gameplay, I mostly mean the mechanics of the engine and code, not the layout of the maps. If we were to move ahead slowly and take 1 map at a time, I think we could do the right thing as long as we're careful and completely test each map. There will still be complaining though.
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: atx_mza on Saturday, December 28, 2013, 20:28:47 PM

[qoute]
I think we could move forward and modify the maps as long as gameplay stays the same because that's what people miss about AA2, the gameplay. By gameplay, I mostly mean the mechanics of the engine and code, not the layout of the maps. If we were to move ahead slowly and take 1 map at a time, I think we could do the right thing as long as we're careful and completely test each map. There will still be complaining though.
[/quote]


See this is where a competitive community is vitally needed. Testing.
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: Spanky on Saturday, December 28, 2013, 20:30:26 PM
See this is where a competitive community is vitally needed. Testing.

That is a problem we currently have, not many people to test the work being done and when releases do happen, people bitch because they weren't around to help in the first place.
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: atx_mza on Saturday, December 28, 2013, 20:38:49 PM
Will have a new pc in a week or so. Plan on downloading AA first night so I will be around to help.
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: Spanky on Saturday, December 28, 2013, 20:41:41 PM
Will have a new pc in a week or so. Plan on downloading AA first night so I will be around to help.
If I were you, I'd wait to download AA until we have the new version out. It should be within a week but it's hard to say.
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: Alex on Saturday, December 28, 2013, 21:36:56 PM
Go ahead. Change the maps and kill the game for some ploy to get more competitive players.

The project was supposed to preserve America's Army so people can play the game they loved. Since when did competitive players start taking precedent over those that play the game just to have fun? Hell Spanky, everything you hate about AA is what the competitive scene is. Supped up sound hardware, sound camping, glitching, custom visual settings to see farther, ini tweaking, and all that shit.

If you guys want to, go ahead and start changing everything, do it. See what happens. I hope it turns out well, but I doubt it will. You'll have to find some more people to change the maps though, I doubt Spanky would be willing to put in all the time by himself.
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: -NicK.! on Saturday, December 28, 2013, 22:02:28 PM
The new maps are part of what killed this game before it grew in the first place. Sf maps are shit. Always have been shit, too much graphic demand... Escort missions are terrible for competition.. Etc.. The only thi they did do right with SF was the silenced m4. If there is any chance of getting this game out of the grave it's going to be with original/updated versions of 1.6-9maps. Mout McKenna, insurgent camp, weapons cache, pipeline, collapsed tunnel, hq raid maybe river basin. Maybe modify those maps to simplify objectives to make the maps more evenly sided. Game needs to be dumbed down so the average pubstar can understand how to play at a competitive level. Game is too small to divide the population with 20 maps...in its peak it was too small to do that.

TL.DR;    don't make the same mistakes the devs made by adding shitty maps before perfecting the great ones the game already has.
I think it's funny how you think adding more maps makes the game worse. I have a secret for you buddy, if you dont like them, you dont have to play them. If the maps were so shitty, no one would play them, but they do.

People who pub do so because they just want to relax and play some AA, its not because they dont understand how to play competitively, that's an ignorant statement at best. I feel your whole view of pubbing is just way off. I played comp for a bit, wasnt very good but i played and now all i really want to do is just pub with a few people and have some fun. It's not always about competition.

I'll just end with this, changing the regular maps to make them better for competition is just a bad idea. The only people who complain are a tiny amount of competitive players who make up a small portion of the community. The rest just want to play the maps they've come to know and love.
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: Spanky on Saturday, December 28, 2013, 22:19:38 PM
Hell Spanky, everything you hate about AA is what the competitive scene is. Supped up sound hardware, sound camping, glitching, custom visual settings to see farther, ini tweaking, and all that shit.

Not everything While that's a big component, the other side of the coin is that AA is non-dynamic. Each round, you know where the enemy spawns, you know everything between you and them and the only variables is that maybe they'll take a second longer to get to their spots or maybe they go a slightly different route. This is why I get bored with playing AA after 5 minutes. A key to true enjoyment would be to have random spawns and more dynamic content where whoring a map is much harder. Random spawns and random objectives will help out a lot in this aspect. Larger maps with more opportunities and routes will also help.
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: Goncalo on Saturday, December 28, 2013, 22:33:30 PM
random spawns maybe good for pub, but worst thing for competition. Like courtyard, its a great map, but if one team has advantage on the spawns, it totally changes how game is fair.
too bad most of you dont know what is playing competition at the highest level, otherwise ud change completly ur opinion about the game and how it should be directed
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: atx_mza on Sunday, December 29, 2013, 00:06:39 AM
Right. This is why 127 people are playing the game. Still going to download it and im sure I'll be called a cheater for pressing the crouch key too many times, if anyone who used to really play this game sees this pm me.
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: Spanky on Sunday, December 29, 2013, 00:21:53 AM
Right. This is why 127 people are playing the game.
That's at one time and that's not the peak. Lately it's been 160+ but again, that's just the users online at one time. There's almost 1,000 unique accounts online during the course of the day. Just thought I'd clear that up.
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: Alex on Sunday, December 29, 2013, 01:32:00 AM
Right. This is why 127 people are playing the game. Still going to download it and im sure I'll be called a cheater for pressing the crouch key too many times, if anyone who used to really play this game sees this pm me.
You know what? Fuck you. If your goal with this thread was to look like a complete douche you pulled it off wonderfully.

It must be difficult to talk to all us pub peasants from way up there on competitive player mountain.
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: Dialects on Sunday, December 29, 2013, 01:35:37 AM
Keep it civilised, please.
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: Yahoo on Sunday, December 29, 2013, 01:56:22 AM
atx_mza, im sorry... who are you again?
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: Bart! on Sunday, December 29, 2013, 07:26:52 AM
random spawns maybe good for pub, but worst thing for competition. Like courtyard, its a great map, but if one team has advantage on the spawns, it totally changes how game is fair.
too bad most of you dont know what is playing competition at the highest level, otherwise ud change completly ur opinion about the game and how it should be directed
I agree.

I still think most pub players are already within their opinion about competitive players before even knowing what it exactly is. The thing is that most competitive players have played the game in more perspectives: as a pubber and as a competitive player, they usually looked through maps and thought out strats in way more detail compared with the majority of the pub players.

You can call them no-lifers for this, arrogant people or anything, but the fact is that because they looked at the game from many different perspectives and that because they played the game in a different way as well and thought out strats and tactics they think about more factors which influence the game, and balance the game compared with regular pub players.

This is why I do think the opinion of a competitive player is based on more variables in the game which leads to the fact that the chance of them calling the right thing to do is higher compared with a regular pub player calling the right thing to do based on their gut feeling.

They just have more experience, whether you like it or not.
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: Saltuarius on Sunday, December 29, 2013, 08:07:52 AM
i dont think more maps or changing mapstructure will help to get more players. i see 2 major points which should be adressed:

1. all the old original maps are great and if u look back a few years, each map had like its own community. So the problem is not the demand of more maps, it is, that all these great maps are not being played at the moment. Think, all these maps have already proven worth to be played many years ago. I think that people coming back to the game have the idea to play certain maps, then they play a bit hospital and leave again. i dont know the numbers, but for the amount of new activations the overall playerbase is pretty stable. community-related projects like the fun-league-community help a lot in this direction and should be honored. if u can change the environement here that more maps get played, u also get more players automatically. one way could be to give people new aims in the game, honorpoints are dead.

2. try to make the game more fair and eradicate major map- and gamebugs (exploits). what i see is an small elite of experienced players who know lots of stuff to gain advantage over the majority. i'm probl one of them. its already so hard for new or returning players to get in the game, so that could be a killer-criterion. as i see how much effort u put into the new assist, i think its crazy not to adress these things. people are not blind and fairness should be the basis of a successfull game. but probably the players are already blind cause permanently ingame-flashed.
i know u tried it on hospital with the roofbug but with the railing u changed the mapdynamics to much, i think.

these things will not get u more new players but it helps that people stay with the game.


Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: -NicK.! on Sunday, December 29, 2013, 12:55:54 PM
random spawns maybe good for pub, but worst thing for competition. Like courtyard, its a great map, but if one team has advantage on the spawns, it totally changes how game is fair.
too bad most of you dont know what is playing competition at the highest level, otherwise ud change completly ur opinion about the game and how it should be directed
No, I feel the problem is you dont understand how then game is NOW. You can't live in the past glory days of competition in AA. You have to be realistic and see that most people playing this game just want to pub. They are playing this game again because they used to play it all the time and want to relive it. One of the things I think is happening is that people want this game to become something it simply cant. It would be amazing to get like 400 people on and have a competitive scene again, but you have to realize that that's just extremely unlikely.
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: Alex on Sunday, December 29, 2013, 13:16:33 PM
I agree.

I still think most pub players are already within their opinion about competitive players before even knowing what it exactly is. The thing is that most competitive players have played the game in more perspectives: as a pubber and as a competitive player, they usually looked through maps and thought out strats in way more detail compared with the majority of the pub players.

You can call them no-lifers for this, arrogant people or anything, but the fact is that because they looked at the game from many different perspectives and that because they played the game in a different way as well and thought out strats and tactics they think about more factors which influence the game, and balance the game compared with regular pub players.

This is why I do think the opinion of a competitive player is based on more variables in the game which leads to the fact that the chance of them calling the right thing to do is higher compared with a regular pub player calling the right thing to do based on their gut feeling.

They just have more experience, whether you like it or not.
That is such bullshit. Him wanting to make the game better for comp players won't make the game better in general. You have 2 different styles of play. Why should competitive play outweigh pub play? It's stupid.

He wants to dumb down all the cool and fun maps so they're better for comp play and not as hard on FPS. That is not going to happen and only benefits competition, not pub play.

A lot of competitive players always have this "holier than thou" attitude and it's pathetic.
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: Spanky on Sunday, December 29, 2013, 13:19:32 PM
Idea: We could strip-down maps and modify them to cater towards tournaments and competitive playing BUT make them a separate version, not overwrite the original. Win-win?
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: Alex on Sunday, December 29, 2013, 13:22:20 PM
Idea: We could strip-down maps and modify them to cater towards tournaments and competitive playing BUT make them a separate version, not overwrite the original. Win-win?
I guess. Nobody would play the stripped down maps though. A competitive community isn't going to magically appear due to more comp friendly maps.
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: Ganja on Sunday, December 29, 2013, 13:36:11 PM
A competitive community isn't going to magically appear due to more comp friendly maps.
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: ArmyAntiCheat on Sunday, December 29, 2013, 13:40:53 PM
Best is to leave as it is, one player came to forum and we deciding to change something, must be with majority and doing such things would waste your own time.
Title: Re: Tournament maps
Post by: Spanky on Sunday, December 29, 2013, 13:48:40 PM
I guess. Nobody would play the stripped down maps though. A competitive community isn't going to magically appear due to more comp friendly maps.
Probably not but how much time would it take? Not much really.