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Author Topic: Random Spawn Points?  (Read 12942 times)

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Offline Spanky

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Re: Random Spawn Points?
« Reply #60 on: Sunday, January 05, 2014, 18:03:18 PM »
I just dont see why you don't listen to us who have been around long enough to know that big changes makes people quit the game. version 2,2 i think it was, nade throwing distance reduced, sights on both m16 and acog changed, bunnyjumping removed. People just left, the game practically died over night. Went from (made up number) like 14000 active to half that, i remember a 50% drop in active pubbing players. Big changes in a game are never for the better, especially on the loose terms of "it's boring as it is" Atleast go for "we want to improve things, do this, and this and hope for this result. With this you're not having enough valid points as for why change is valid, no improving points that actually make a diffrence is presented. You can dance around the bush saying "opinions differ" but it still don't change the fact that it will do nothing to improve anything.

Its like saying "I'm SO bored driving my car to work every morning, same road, same speeding cameras, cops are always on the same spot, i could sleep and still get there safe" Then having the road change into a curvy, bumpy, rimb crashing holes in the road "just for the fun of it" No improvement to the road, just to make it abit more exciting thinking it would change how i get from point A to B. WHY NOT?
Couple of things here Ares;

1. I wasn't around for v2.2 in it's prime-time. I came around when 2.3 was being distributed but I think my CD's were old because it seems like not long after I got them, I heard about v2.6 being released. But I played a mix of 2.3 and 2.6 for quite a long time. I was never part of the "competitive" community mostly because I never cared to be. I've always thought it to be silly to take games seriously. Back in these days, I enjoyed AA very much, pulling all-nighters was a frequent occasion. It's hard to figure but v2.3 is probably my 2nd most played game if not the first. I knew all the whoring, all the tactics, what players did and didn't like.

2. Changing the original game is a very controversial topic and one we're trying to handle delicately. We want to progress this game forward but we don't want to alter classic gameplay. Personally, I deem "classic" gameplay as that of the overall game feel, it's mechanics, if you will. I'm undecided whether or not it's a good thing to edit original maps. It's one of those things where a lot of people want to remember the classic maps as they were but it also stagnates gameplay very quickly. Random spawns wouldn't change the gameplay or the map but rather the tactics and behavior of the players on the map.

I would seriously doubt that the original dev team would like if all of you changed their trademarked maps into your own version of random spawns, create your own version of it, and then randomize spawn it all you want.
Nobody would play the new ones. That's been proven. mAAp Pipeline and Urban Assault SE are superior versions of the original maps but nobody bothers with them. The changes would have to occur on the original maps or players get sneaky and figure out ways around just like the 82nd guys and playing SF Pipeline once we told them forceclassing SF wasn't allowed.



Sure, we can do whatever we want to the maps but ultimately we want to take this game in a direction that will be favorable for the majority of users. What we should do is go through each original map and completely overhaul it. Fix bugs, improve graphics, add features that users want and discuss things like weapon loadout, spawn position and random spawns. The devs WOULD have done this if they had more time to refine the game rather than be pushed for more features in short deadlines.
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Offline testerKB

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Re: Random Spawn Points?
« Reply #61 on: Sunday, January 05, 2014, 18:16:06 PM »
Sure, we can do whatever we want to the maps but ultimately we want to take this game in a direction that will be favorable for the _majority_of users.

+1

I will make the "majority" in bold and underlined for those who didn't get it yet.

Offline Ares

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Re: Random Spawn Points?
« Reply #62 on: Sunday, January 05, 2014, 18:21:15 PM »
Couple of things here Ares;

1. I wasn't around for v2.2 in it's prime-time. I came around when 2.3 was being distributed but I think my CD's were old because it seems like not long after I got them, I heard about v2.6 being released. But I played a mix of 2.3 and 2.6 for quite a long time. I was never part of the "competitive" community mostly because I never cared to be. I've always thought it to be silly to take games seriously. Back in these days, I enjoyed AA very much, pulling all-nighters was a frequent occasion. It's hard to figure but v2.3 is probably my 2nd most played game if not the first. I knew all the whoring, all the tactics, what players did and didn't like.

2. Changing the original game is a very controversial topic and one we're trying to handle delicately. We want to progress this game forward but we don't want to alter classic gameplay. Personally, I deem "classic" gameplay as that of the overall game feel, it's mechanics, if you will. I'm undecided whether or not it's a good thing to edit original maps. It's one of those things where a lot of people want to remember the classic maps as they were but it also stagnates gameplay very quickly. Random spawns wouldn't change the gameplay or the map but rather the tactics and behavior of the players on the map.
Nobody would play the new ones. That's been proven. mAAp Pipeline and Urban Assault SE are superior versions of the original maps but nobody bothers with them. The changes would have to occur on the original maps or players get sneaky and figure out ways around just like the 82nd guys and playing SF Pipeline once we told them forceclassing SF wasn't allowed.



Sure, we can do whatever we want to the maps but ultimately we want to take this game in a direction that will be favorable for the majority of users. What we should do is go through each original map and completely overhaul it. Fix bugs, improve graphics, add features that users want and discuss things like weapon loadout, spawn position and random spawns. The devs WOULD have done this if they had more time to refine the game rather than be pushed for more features in short deadlines.
Good answer spanky.

I can't be sure what version the changes were made, but the outcome was devestating, both to pubbing and to competitive.

I totally respect you, and many others, which are obviously the majority of the community for not liking the idea of taking a online game seriously. With this being said, can you honestly say you would wonder off in the same directions regarding random spawns on, will you "our" maps (looking at it from a competitive viewpoint)? It's a difficult question, and a hard one for you to answer since you don't know what that partion of the community is like, what the excitement is, the group, your friends and the tactics. We enjoy winning, we love it, being a solitare game, trivial prisiut or in this case AA. Having someone change it, looking at it from our viewpoint; for no apparent reason other than in the ones making the changes eyes "moving forward" and "improving the game"?
Christ we stuck with the game for over 10 years now, 11 even. If we wanted a change, we would have gone to another game.

I for one does not only deem "orignal gameplay" what you stated above, but also knowing them angles, knowing what time to spam, time under preassure and practice. This is something you barely would, or could implement into a public server because of the total chaos that rules on a pub server compared to a controlled match in whatever leauge you deem fit.

What i was trrying to point out, but felt i didn't really put forward to you in a manner suitable for this discussion is as follows: If you, and perhaps, and obviously many others feels that the gameplay is stagnant, my initial response was, and still is. You need to change your way of playing, how you think when you play, and not get stuck in the "this is how i play it" that you so badly want to get away from, you might think you play it diffrent, but really you arent't. I ofcourse don't know this, because I am not you. I am meerly speaking out of my own experience I've had, I too felt this, and started playing ridiculusly agressive, anyone who has scrimmed, pubbed or had a tactic chat with me can tell you this. It isn't always for the better of the team, nor me. But it makes it fun for me. I do, and try shit you won't belive to enhance the fun. My point being, I feel you don't need to change the game itself, just your own style playing it. And frankly, peoples style, and manner of playing AA has drastically changed over the years. The amount of camping and bitching with flashes in hand leaning around whatever corner on whatever map is HUGE. I can understand people find it boring, and i understand how frustrating it must feel getting shot whilst doing so, but people. Change.

I apologize if i get abit out of hand at times with my ranting, I'm just tired of all the fucking "let's all be friends" People will disagree, and when I do, I don't like being met with "leave if you don't like it" It's a terrible argument and it undermines your opinion beyond all. And this is not directed to anyone in particular, more to the overall feeling i get in here sometimes. And if everyone in here agrees that we're here to improve the game, opinons that differ from time to time needs to be looked upon with open eyes.

« Last Edit: Sunday, January 05, 2014, 18:39:00 PM by Ares »

Offline Spanky

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Re: Random Spawn Points?
« Reply #63 on: Sunday, January 05, 2014, 18:43:05 PM »
The point is you shouldn't have to spam, camp, tweak, glitch, hear people across the map, time your movements to a stop watch, learn every inch of the map by playing it offline or any other crap like that just to be able to play with people who do the same thing. This game is incredibly difficult to start playing if you're a new player. I've effectively lost all of my skill by not playing regularly and for me, I watch others in-game and really wonder how much time they have to piss away to play like that.

Despite sounding like it, adding random spawns isn't a personal vendetta against those who have owned me in-game. I just like creating content for this game and I'm trying to get a feel from the community what would be most enjoyed and appreciated, that's all.
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Offline testerKB

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Re: Random Spawn Points?
« Reply #64 on: Sunday, January 05, 2014, 18:47:17 PM »
Good answer spanky.

I can't be sure what version the changes were made, but the outcome was devestating, both to pubbing and to competitive.

I totally respect you, and many others, which are obviously the majority of the community for not liking the idea of taking a online game seriously. With this being said, can you honestly say you would wonder off in the same directions regarding random spawns on, will you "our" maps (looking at it from a competitive viewpoint)? It's a difficult question, and a hard one for you to answer since you don't know what that partion of the community is like, what the excitement is, the group, your friends and the tactics. We enjoy winning, we love it, being a solitare game, trivial prisiut or in this case AA. Having someone change it, looking at it from our viewpoint; for no apparent reason other than in the ones making the changes eyes "moving forward" and "improving the game"?
Christ we stuck with the game for over 10 years now, 11 even. If we wanted a change, we would have gone to another game.

I for one does not only deem "orignal gameplay" what you stated above, but also knowing them angles, knowing what time to spam, time under preassure and practice. This is something you barely would, or could implement into a public server because of the total chaos that rules on a pub server compared to a controlled match in whatever leauge you deem fit.

What i was trrying to point out, but felt i didn't really put forward to you in a manner suitable for this discussion is as follows: If you, and perhaps, and obviously many others feels that the gameplay is stagnant, my initial response was, and still is. You need to change your way of playing, how you think when you play, and not get stuck in the "this is how i play it" that you so badly want to get away from, you might think you play it diffrent, but really you arent't. I ofcourse don't know this, because I am not you. I am meerly speaking out of my own experience I've had, I too felt this, and started playing ridiculusly agressive, anyone who has scrimmed, pubbed or had a tactic chat with me can tell you this. It isn't always for the better of the team, nor me. But it makes it fun for me. I do, and try shit you won't belive to enhance the fun. My point being, I feel you don't need to change the game itself, just your own style playing it. And frankly, peoples style, and manner of playing AA has drastically changed over the years. The amount of camping and bitching with flashes in hand leaning around whatever corner on whatever map is HUGE. I can understand people find it boring, and i understand how frustrating it must feel getting shot whilst doing so, but people. Change.

I apologize if i get abit out of hand at times with my ranting, I'm just tired of all the fucking "let's all be friends" People will disagree, and when I do, I don't like being met with "leave if you don't like it" It's a terrible argument and it undermines your opinion beyond all. And this is not directed to anyone in particular, more to the overall feeling i get in here sometimes. And if everyone in here agrees that we're here to improve the game, opinons that differ from time to time needs to be looked upon with open eyes.

Am I the only one who thinks those 5 long paragraphs are totally off-topic?

Offline -NicK.!

Re: Random Spawn Points?
« Reply #65 on: Sunday, January 05, 2014, 18:52:18 PM »
The point is you shouldn't have to spam, camp, tweak, glitch, hear people across the map, time your movements to a stop watch, learn every inch of the map by playing it offline or any other crap like that just to be able to play with people who do the same thing. This game is incredibly difficult to start playing if you're a new player. I've effectively lost all of my skill by not playing regularly and for me, I watch others in-game and really wonder how much time they have to piss away to play like that.

Despite sounding like it, adding random spawns isn't a personal vendetta against those who have owned me in-game. I just like creating content for this game and I'm trying to get a feel from the community what would be most enjoyed and appreciated, that's all.
While it is true that it is a very hard game to start playing, saying that people need to play all the time to be good is just not true. I have played this game in waves, taking a break for as much as 6 months at a time and then I come back and at no time do I feel like I suck a lot more since I didn't play. Naturally there is a tiny loss of skill and stuff but to act like people spend all their time playing just because they are good is just wrong. It seems you are taking the COD approach to FPS thinking. You want to suppress the skill gap (btw i dont count tweaking. glitching, and that stuff as skill) so that high skilled players dont have as much of an advantage over low skilled players but that is just how it goes. The only problem now is that there are not enough players the even out the skill levels and that's why it is such an issue.

I am all for adding content that makes the game better and more enjoyable, I just think editing old maps as much as that will backfire pretty badly.
« Last Edit: Sunday, January 05, 2014, 18:55:30 PM by -NicK.! »

Offline Ares

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Re: Random Spawn Points?
« Reply #66 on: Sunday, January 05, 2014, 18:54:26 PM »
The point is you shouldn't have to spam, camp, tweak, glitch, hear people across the map, time your movements to a stop watch, learn every inch of the map by playing it offline or any other crap like that just to be able to play with people who do the same thing. This game is incredibly difficult to start playing if you're a new player. I've effectively lost all of my skill by not playing regularly and for me, I watch others in-game and really wonder how much time they have to piss away to play like that.

Despite sounding like it, adding random spawns isn't a personal vendetta against those who have owned me in-game. I just like creating content for this game and I'm trying to get a feel from the community what would be most enjoyed and appreciated, that's all.
It is hard, if you're not one to grasp the FPS genre fast, just like CS is today. Try playing Cs1.6 today, without having played it before. You will get urinated on, by all. And you do not need to tweak, glitch nor hear across the map, the latter helps but is in no way a nessesary means to becoming good. Either you got it, or you don't. Changing gameplay don't change that, take this the right way please.

What I fear, and think will happen is that you will loose a large portion of the scene, to please the remaining ones who didn't enjoy playing half as much as the one leaving. You'll have happy, but not dedicated players. If that's the way you all want to go, there's nothing we can do about it. And it feels kinda boring after all these years if that were to happen. I seriously feel it's more my game then the ones pubbing it, just having a laugh from time to time. i know im dead beat wrong, but that's how i feel. I spent more time and enjoyed it in more ways than them, again. I know how it sounds but this is the general concensis of the competitive community, and I'm trying to be honest. So that you may take it in to any eventual concideration when it comes to making a final decision, which comes down to; for us, if the game lives on or dies. As we know it.

Offline Ares

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Re: Random Spawn Points?
« Reply #67 on: Sunday, January 05, 2014, 18:56:38 PM »
Am I the only one who thinks those 5 long paragraphs are totally off-topic?
Yes you are, it's not their fault you can't comprehend English above 3:rd grade level. Contribute instead of sitting around squeezing your balls. And mine for that matter.

Offline testerKB

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Re: Random Spawn Points?
« Reply #68 on: Sunday, January 05, 2014, 18:58:28 PM »
You'll have happy, but not dedicated players.

Of course, only you are dedicated, rest is not.

I seriously feel it's more my game then the ones pubbing it

We already know you feel so much more important than the other players, but thanks for reminding this.

Offline testerKB

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Re: Random Spawn Points?
« Reply #69 on: Sunday, January 05, 2014, 19:00:30 PM »
Yes you are, it's not their fault you can't comprehend English above 3:rd grade level. Contribute instead of sitting around squeezing your balls. And mine for that matter.

Try to be more concice next time. Right now its like 1 concrete sentence diluted in several paragraphs of "bla bla" + "a im pro" pseudo-intellectual talk.

Offline Ares

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Re: Random Spawn Points?
« Reply #70 on: Sunday, January 05, 2014, 19:02:10 PM »
Of course, only you are dedicated, rest is not.

We already know you feel so much more important than the other players, but thanks for reminding this.
Me and my fellow neo-competitive nazi players in your mind, that is. Come on man, that lowpoint you said I was hitting when i compared you to my ex, with irony I might add. You're bashing your head bloody against the bottom of it with every post, either contribute with some context. Or add me on facebook. Samuel Huuki and we can continue our talk there.

Offline testerKB

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Re: Random Spawn Points?
« Reply #71 on: Sunday, January 05, 2014, 19:06:23 PM »
Me and my fellow neo-competitive nazi players in your mind, that is. Come on man, that lowpoint you said I was hitting when i compared you to my ex, with irony I might add. You're bashing your head bloody against the bottom of it with every post, either contribute with some context. Or add me on facebook. Samuel Huuki and we can continue our talk there.

Facebook? What is that?!?

My only message to you is: Pubbers will vote you out. Your time is counted. Competetive pseudo-pros will die out like dinosaurs.

Offline Ares

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Re: Random Spawn Points?
« Reply #72 on: Sunday, January 05, 2014, 19:08:19 PM »
Try to be more concice next time. Right now its like 1 concrete sentence diluted in several paragraphs of "bla bla" + "a im pro" pseudo-intellectual talk.
Which is nontheless 1 concrete sentence, more and better than you contributed to this discussion. Like I said my friend, drop it. You are fast becoming the thing you call out me for being, a little whining bitch. I pointed out valid facts, serveral of them. Count, wrap your head around that the world you know isn't everything out there. Add me on facebook, i look forward to having great chats with you about how to count, understanding sentences and last but not least, how to become as pro as I am in AA.

Offline Froster

Re: Random Spawn Points?
« Reply #73 on: Sunday, January 05, 2014, 19:13:25 PM »
Well if random spawn location comes , there should be a new mode called Free-For-All :P

Offline testerKB

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Re: Random Spawn Points?
« Reply #74 on: Sunday, January 05, 2014, 19:20:18 PM »
how to become as pro as I am in AA.

Thanks for again reminding the essence of your writing here.

 

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