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America's Army => General Chat => Topic started by: Leopardi on Thursday, January 19, 2012, 06:12:08 AM
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Because honestly, the widescreen users are suffering in this game:
(https://aao25.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg337.imageshack.us%2Fimg337%2F1962%2Farmyops2012011913093900.jpg&hash=707a224e9d7b1477fcd3a10e1bc592db)(https://aao25.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg823.imageshack.us%2Fimg823%2F2531%2Farmyops2012011913095371.jpg&hash=a824c6d87f42ecb69164687aad952caf)
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Sorry, I'm not understanding, what's your point?
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Sorry, I'm not understanding, what's your point?
Is it possible to add widescreen support that doesn't cut out half of the view?
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Is it possible to add widescreen support that doesn't cut out half of the view?
He meas he can see more in 4:3 than he can in 16:9. This limit is on the screen width so by its own design ratio you can't fit a 4:3 screen in 16:9 without chopping off the top and bottom.
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Have you ever tried playing windowed guys? You can reshape the window as much as you like, so i don't think it is an issue. You can create a 4:3 window, you'll probably have unused space, but who cares.
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Missus can play on 16:9 with no problems, no chopping etc.
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If you're playing 1280x1024, then you likely have a 17" monitor which is NOT widescreen. Wanting to play 16:9 or 16:10 on a 4:3 monitor will make black bars appear. You have to have a widescreen monitor to play widescreen :)
Now, if you do have a widescreen monitor and the highest you can go is 1280x1024, maybe you need driver updates.
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If you're playing 1280x1024, then you likely have a 17" monitor which is NOT widescreen. Wanting to play 16:9 or 16:10 on a 4:3 monitor will make black bars appear. You have to have a widescreen monitor to play widescreen :)
Now, if you do have a widescreen monitor and the highest you can go is 1280x1024, maybe you need driver updates.
Noo, the pictures I posted are 16:9 and 5:4. 16:9 widescreen is like watching through a scope all the time, to a point it's not even playable.
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Sorry, I'm not good with aspect ratios. Anyway, what monitor do you have? It's always best to use your monitor's native resolution.
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1280x1024 is 5:4
1024x768 is 4:3
My monitor at home is a 17" with 1280x1024 native resolution, so everything looks best on resolutions of 5:4
If I use a widescreen resolution in games, the view gets cut.
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Sorry, I'm not good with aspect ratios. Anyway, what monitor do you have? It's always best to use your monitor's native resolution.
Dell U2312HM which is 1920x1080 (16:9)... but I can't use it, absolute tunnel vision. Instead I use 1280x960 (4:3) stretched, which is ugly but at least playing doesn't feel like watching through a scope all the time.
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How can't you use it? Can you provide a screenshot at that resolution? I'm at 1680x1050 and have absolutely no problem. I know Skrewy has a 1920x1080 monitor, maybe he'll report some findings.
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You know, I was thinking about this and I think I know what you're talking about:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/464376/GameShots/ArmyOps%202010-08-09%2012-14-19-82.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/464376/GameShots/ArmyOps%202010-08-09%2012-12-42-56.jpg
Stretched at the outside edge, looks like things get smaller in the center? The screenshots above are from when I had a 3-monitor setup so it's super stretched from side to side. The problem is FOV. Each game and each engine handles it differently. This effect is usually not too noticeable on widescreen monitors but if you look for it, it's there. You can't change your FOV without getting kicked via PunkBuster for hacking. I can suggest 3 options:
Play fullscreen at native resolution and just deal with it.
Play windowed at 1280x1024.
Get a 1920x1200 monitor.
If you could change your FOV in-game, it would look more like this:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/464376/GameShots/ArmyOps%202010-08-09%2012-15-45-63.jpg
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this guys wack, i play on my 19" wide screen just fine for years. No issues, with seeing or bad reg. The game should always match your desktop res.
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this guys wack, i play on my 19" wide screen just fine for years. No issues, with seeing or bad reg. The game should always match your desktop res.
What resolution? I'd guess 1440x900 which is 16:10, not 16:9 like his.
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1920x1080 on my 24inch monitor looks fine(https://aao25.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi161.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft222%2FSKREWUP%2FArmyOps2012-01-2014-08-00-96.jpg&hash=e545a3c8d9e7de13d0764fb47a00704c)
That is not fine... look how much is cut from the top/bottom (look at weapon and the sky). In a CQB situation with vertical gameplay like in Pipeline it's an absolute horror to play with.
(https://aao25.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg151.imageshack.us%2Fimg151%2F7843%2Farmyops2012012015300754.jpg&hash=2431dde4fb0048f4310bccf846758bcc)
(https://aao25.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg4.imageshack.us%2Fimg4%2F3070%2Farmyops2012012015302200.jpg&hash=00f8448e38857ffb1a43278ef4849216)
16:10 is a little better, just somewhat acceptable. But 16:9 is taking it too far.
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Whoops. I clicked on "enlarge your FOV" advertising on my mail :P nasty advertising.
Disclaimer: a few medic personnel was wounded after taking this pic.
(https://aao25.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F5CCtV.jpg&hash=62172710a6f914768a14dbcc318bc106)
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I would say it is more important to see what is going on to the left and to the right, I don't see why its important to see the floor and sky.
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Leopardi, your largest complaint is with your monitor's size. I mean, I guess you could blame AA for being developed in a time where widescreen monitors weren't the norm but in your screenshots, you lose maybe 3" of the players hand? I offered you solutions to the problem. There is another solution but it would likely cause headaches (possibly literally) and that's to change the FOV allowed by Assist servers' PB scans.
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I think widescreen displays on a computer is a stupid idea.
When reading a web page or document you need height not width, What a dumb idea, why did the invent it?
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I never did understand the whole widescreen push. Some movies have such a wide aspect ratio that even on 16:9 you have thick black bars. Some people rotate their monitors to be in portrait mode which is fine for web but sucks for most games unless you do something like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQHQR5Ho39s
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I never did understand the whole widescreen push. Some movies have such a wide aspect ratio that even on 16:9 you have thick black bars. Some people rotate their monitors to be in portrait mode which is fine for web but sucks for most games unless you do something like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQHQR5Ho39s
That doesn't look like a great solution, i think the bezels get a lot in the way, or at least they get in the way of the main object in your screen (the car).
Picture ration in movies is a different thing imho.
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That doesn't look like a great solution, i think the bezels get a lot in the way, or at least they get in the way of the main object in your screen (the car).
Bezels aren't so bad. The other monitors are more for peripherals. It's something you have to use to get an idea of how practical it is. Besides, you can buy 3 16:9 1080p monitors for $550-$850 and get over 2 million more pixels than you would with a single 16:10 2560x1600 monitor.
Anyway, it is a shame that so many cheap 16:9 TN panels flood the market. But it's also a shame that 16:10 IPS panels are so expensive.
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Modern games (some of them) render in a way that if the resolution is wider, you gain view on the sides. Older engine do the opposite where wider views chop off the top and bottom.
It's been this way in AA since day 1, so w/e. And it's not gonna change either, it's an engine thing and it's an old game.
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Modern games (some of them) render in a way that if the resolution is wider, you gain view on the sides. Older engine do the opposite where wider views chop off the top and bottom.
It's been this way in AA since day 1, so w/e. And it's not gonna change either, it's an engine thing and it's an old game.
But it's possible to change the FOV in the game. It's possible to make better for 90% of the users who have widescreen monitor these days.
I would say it is more important to see what is going on to the left and to the right, I don't see why its important to see the floor and sky.
AA has a lot of vertical gameplay, it's not CS. Example: When you enter the main pump room in Pipeline, a tunnel vision like this means the difference between life and death.
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But it's possible to change the FOV in the game. It's possible to make better for 90% of the users who have widescreen monitor these days.
The problem is PunkBuster checks. We would have to setup a standard and get users to vote on it before changing the FOV to another value.
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Deal with it.
Everyone else does.
I'm sry but i just don't see any reason to complain about this or try to fix it by using fov.
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The problem is PunkBuster checks. We would have to setup a standard and get users to vote on it before changing the FOV to another value.
So... set a new standard? It's time for this game to go widescreen.
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So... set a new standard? It's time for this game to go widescreen.
We can.
pb_sv_cvar "PlayerController FovAngle *" IN 85
pb_sv_cvar "PlayerController DefaultFOV *" IN 85
pb_sv_cvar "StudentController FovAngle *" IN 85
pb_sv_cvar "StudentController DefaultFOV *" IN 85
pb_sv_cvar "HumanController FovAngle *" IN 85
pb_sv_cvar "HumanController DefaultFOV *" IN 85
Choose a number that works well with the majority of people's hardware and then get the majority of the community FOR changing it and we'll do it after merging mAAp and Normal modes in Assist. I doubt this will happen though, seeing that people bitch and moan about merging modes.
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That would have to be an option in Assist. Cuz people who have the 'default' 4:3 resolution are gonna have the proper view on 90 fov (90 fov meaning 90 degrees, at least thats what it is on UT2004).
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That would have to be an option in Assist. Cuz people who have the 'default' 4:3 resolution are gonna have the proper view on 90 fov (90 fov meaning 90 degrees, at least thats what it is on UT2004).
Just make a "widescreen" tickbox in assist if you have a widescreen monitor.
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Just make a "widescreen" tickbox in assist if you have a widescreen monitor.
Yea basically that.
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Just make a "widescreen" tickbox in assist if you have a widescreen monitor.
You're not understanding. Anything OTHER than a FOV of 85 will get you kicked AND banned on servers. It is a bannable HACK. To get it changed would mean to change the server checks as well as EVERYBODYS installation to another default. Which means YOU (since you want it changed) will have to ask Jonny if this is something he would do AND you would have to get the majority of users FOR this change, explaining why it needs to be done and find an acceptable value replacement for a wide range of monitors and resolutions.
Basically, it's a lot of work and hassle instead of just accepting the loss of 2 inches of your soldiers arm.
I just checked in AA and my point is somewhat invalid. I think the PB checks actually see if your FOV is above 85. Default is 90 so I think if you set it to 120, you wouldn't get kicked. Lower number basically zooms you in, higher makes you zoom out. But, the more you zoom out, the more "scope" view there is. So, Leopardi, I think you're screwed unless you get another monitor or just play windowed mode. You can try raising your FOV which will give you more view but it will also give you more "scope" view.
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What is the correct FOV for 4:3 and 16:9?
i will add a tickbox for widescreen and update PB cvars if needed.
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Heh
http://forums.beyondunreal.com/showthread.php?t=196665
But again, if the OP goes with a larger value FOV, the scope effect will just be worse.
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If you wanna get scientific about it, take a screenshot at a normal resolution with fov 90. Change to a 16:9 resolution and change the fov until it looks the same as the fov 90 screenshot. Don't forget you're compensating for the top and bottom clip.
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I beleve 106 is the answer, will add an option in the next release.
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Ok have tried changing
DesiredFOV=106.000000
DefaultFOV=106.000000
FOVAngle=106.0
in the user.ini and it changes nothing... If anyone can figure out how to actually change the FOV please let me know.
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Ok have tried changing
DesiredFOV=106.000000
DefaultFOV=106.000000
FOVAngle=106.0
in the user.ini and it changes nothing... If anyone can figure out how to actually change the FOV please let me know.
you could change the fov by just writing fov 106 in the console, but it had to be a cheat server.
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Ok have tried changing
DesiredFOV=106.000000
DefaultFOV=106.000000
FOVAngle=106.0
in the user.ini and it changes nothing... If anyone can figure out how to actually change the FOV please let me know.
Hmm, you're right. 90 isn't even default, 85 is. We might have to hex edit some files for this. I'll post back with findings later.
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I think a client sided uscript is needed, i see fov stuff in engine.playercontroller but i don't know how to make client side u scrips, where do you even load them?
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I have no idea :) I think it would be easier to just swap the corresponding .u file. Where's the FOV located in the .u's?
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leave it default.
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it would give widescreen people an advantage over normal people...
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it would give widescreen people an advantage over normal people...
of course with widescreen you should see some more... and widescreen is the norm now. Minority has an advantage over most people now...
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I think a client sided uscript is needed, i see fov stuff in engine.playercontroller but i don't know how to make client side u scrips, where do you even load them?
Actually, I think you're right. Hex editing a core .u file would mean 2 different MD5 for Punkbuster. The way to do this is having to force a client side script. BUT, what does the Punkbuster check mean? Like, is it saying that FOV has to be inside 85.0-85.9? Meaning it couldn't be 84 or 86? Or does it mean that it has to be 85 or larger? That's what we have to figure out because we can't just remove the FOV check, otherwise people could change theirs to 5 and have super zoom. We have to first come up with a PB check that only kicks for less than 85 FOV. Then we can work on a client side mod.
*EDIT*
This might help for a mod:
/*
// ======================================================================================
// AGP function - FOV
// Allows player to change their FOV when cheats are enabled
// input: FLOAT F - new Fov
// last modified by: superville 09/18/01
// ======================================================================================
*/
exec function FOV( float F )
{
if( F >= 80.0 || Level.Netmode == NM_Standalone ) {
DesiredFOV = FClamp( F, 1, 170 );
}
}
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So apparantly the actual function for fov changing is FClamp(). Thats all I got out of that.
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This is how i read it...
DesiredFOV = FClamp( F, 1, 170 );
desiredfov = (fov you asked for, but no less than 1, and no greater than 170)
so to change fov to 106 we need:
Playercontroller.DesiredFOV = 106
But how to load and execute this?
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I've done a lot of reading up on client versus server stuff for the Karma mod and here's something that I think explains it a bit more:
simulated function Tick( float Delta )
{
Super.Tick( Delta );
DoStuffOnServerOnly();
DoStuffOnBoth();
}
// Called from a simulated function, but not simulated itself,
// the engine skips over this function on clients. (or rather,
// the non-authority version, which is usually the client)
function DoStuffOnServerOnly()
{
DoStuffOnClient();
}
// A simulated function getting called from another simulated
// function. This gets called on both machines.
simulated function DoStuffOnBoth()
{
}
// Oops! This is a simulated function, but gets called from a
// non-simulated function, so although it COULD run on a client
// (because it's simulated) the code that calls it doesn't run
// on the client and so this won't ever get called.
simulated function DoStuffOnClient()
{
}
Basically, the mod would get loaded server-side and I think we would have 2 client side files and Assist would choose which one to load and the only difference would be the FOV value.
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Lawdy. Why does Tim Sweeney have to make uscript look so awkward?
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You can't do that, when you join a server it will md5 check the uscipt the client has with the uscipt the server has.
I could do this in antipoke with an .ini file for widescreen=0 or 1
But this would mean a new md5 for antipoke and thus version incompatability with old and new servers on the next update. A bit of a mess as some servers are left running for weeks and aren't beeing keept upto date.
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You can't do that, when you join a server it will md5 check the uscipt the client has with the uscipt the server has.
Which reminds me. Why did TeamView have to be removed? I think you said it was because people might make a hack and name it TeamView? We could just MD5 TeamView as well.
Anyway, back on topic. There should be a way to disable servers that aren't updated. I know it would outrage some people but when there's a mandatory update, what else can you do? Maybe have your auth mod check AA25.org for a version string and if it's out of date, make it spam warnings or something? I know there was a mod similar to this that Crusade made.
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Is this what you are all asking for???
4X3 MODE
(https://aao25.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fauth.aa25.org%2Fimg%2F4x3.PNG&hash=8f861dd8f4dd6b755cb27d54c290ecc3)
16X9 MODE
(https://aao25.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fauth.aa25.org%2Fimg%2F16x9.PNG&hash=29e6d29f7dc588f85c36d656ccf58894)
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It was fine the way it was. I say just keep it there.
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The plan is too add a widescreen fov option in the settings screen, turn off by default. for those who want it.
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Jonny, did you test whether PB is going to be ok with this?
I think Leopardi should open up single player and test a larger FOV to see if he likes the ramped up scope view.
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fov 101.5 is exactly the same, except you see more on the sides. No fisheye scope. But can you adjust the weapon model for the new fov? Now it stays the same as with old fov, looking odd.
(https://aao25.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg813.imageshack.us%2Fimg813%2F4919%2Farmyops2012012222131148.jpg&hash=c5f4a0e76ddae847169f84c113455722)
(https://aao25.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg37.imageshack.us%2Fimg37%2F8517%2Farmyops2012012222133574.jpg&hash=8b873134427a3c34c7ee1a2d73fceab7)
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So what about 16x10? Would the 16x9 resolution work fine?
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So what about 16x10? Would the 16x9 resolution work fine?
You can add a different tickbox for 16x10 and 16x9 to make it exactly like 4x3, but see more on the sides. Or automatically have the correct new fov for the resolutions when you pick them from assist, which is better imo.
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Leopardi, 101.5 looks good. As far as the weapon model, we can't really do anything with that. It's just the way the game is.
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I have changed the FOV using the AntiPoke uscript client side, also changed pb cvars. will be in the next release.
But is version incompatable so will wait until the next maap release to do it.
(https://aao25.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fauth.aa25.org%2Fimg%2Frfov.PNG&hash=359ee863574ec955798d1a7401815f07)
USCRIPT Stuff..
simulated event PostRender (Canvas MyCanvas)
{
MyController = MyCanvas.ViewPort.Actor;
if ( bws == True && MyController.DesiredFOV ~= 85 )
{
MyController.DesiredFOV = 101;
}
}
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Leopardi, 101.5 looks good. As far as the weapon model, we can't really do anything with that. It's just the way the game is.
can't you fool the game somehow think it's a 4:3 resolution so the weapon model is correct for the new fov?
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Leopardi, 101.5 looks good. As far as the weapon model, we can't really do anything with that. It's just the way the game is.
Not true, I saw several weapon FOV things. I'll have to look them up again.
From AGP.u; ChangeWpnFOV
fov 101.5 is exactly the same, except you see more on the sides. No fisheye scope.
How do you see less scope effect with a larger value FOV? I see a crap ton more scope effect with larger FOV.
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Not true, I saw several weapon FOV things. I'll have to look them up again.
From AGP.u; ChangeWpnFOV
How do you see less scope effect with a larger value FOV? I see a crap ton more scope effect with larger FOV.
Because the vertical fov is exactly the same. You just see more on sides.
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You can't move the weapon up into the middle of the screen, it would look stupid. The game moves it down like that so it is not blocking your view.
The weapon fov funtions are the FOV you get when you pull up the sights
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You can't move the weapon up into the middle of the screen, it would look stupid. The game moves it down like that so it is not blocking your view.
The weapon fov funtions are the FOV you get when you pull up the sights
are you sure there's not any way of making the game think its a 4:3 resolution for example?
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Why, what is it your trying to achive?
If the game though it was 4:3 everything would be out of perspective, everyone would look fat LOL.
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Because the vertical fov is exactly the same. You just see more on sides.
I made a video showing it;
http://youtu.be/47D-NqLyLwI?hd=1
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I can see the edges warping more. What was the resolution you were playing at just curious?
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1280x720, it's what I switch to for all my YouTube videos. But, it's like that in 1680x1050 as well.
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Unreal engine 2.5 is just plain retarded lol. I swear it does all this funky stuff cuz it renders in a box instead of a sphere.
Switching the fov to 101 on wide resolutions gives you the same top and bottom view as a 4:3 resolution, however everything fish-eyes like a bitch.
Well, leave the the widescreen option on Assist. If people can deal with the fish-eye, they have a widescreen option. And they can't come back here and complain about it either. They can suck a tit if they do.
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Why, what is it your trying to achive?
If the game though it was 4:3 everything would be out of perspective, everyone would look fat LOL.
No.. the weapon model fov which doesnt adjust with the fov command. If the weapon 3D model was like in 4:3 it would look correct.
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I made a video showing it;
http://youtu.be/47D-NqLyLwI?hd=1
I can see it now. How about a non-fisheye widescreen tickbox somewhere in between 85 and 101? lol.
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Leopardi,
Find us a value between 85 and 101 that looks good to you and we'll do it. We're all trying to figure this out too.
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Leopardi,
Find us a value between 85 and 101 that looks good to you and we'll do it. We're all trying to figure this out too.
I think I found a better solution. How is this guy playing at ultra widescreen resolution, same top/bottom fov and no fisheye?
[youtube]HQQO5O7_Qrs[/youtube]
edit: ah nvm, just saw the weapon model...
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Leopardi,
When you say weapon model, do you mean the way the weapon looks when you zoom in?
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Leopardi,
When you say weapon model, do you mean the way the weapon looks when you zoom in?
no, the normal unzoomed view. In 4:3 you see the weapon stock held firmly against your shoulder instead of your cheek...
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Oh okay, I was looking at the picture just now and I see what you mean. The weapon is not as big of a deal as the fov. But I guess one could potentially move the weapon model over a little bit. We just have to figure that out first because this isn't something that someone knows how to fix right away lol. You gotta look at the code a little bit before you know what your looking for ya know?
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Why do you care about how much of the weapon model you can see? I gotta be honest i don't think we can do anything about it and i don't see why it should be a priority anyway.
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I agree. If you want to see that missing top/bottom area, move your mouse. It doesn't need much movement or effort really - unless you're playing with Rise of the Triad old school style (using only keyboard to play and press PageUp to look up).