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America's Army => General Chat => Topic started by: Spanky on Wednesday, July 03, 2013, 01:10:38 AM
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I hopped on IC and Bridge earlier today and I haven't played in a long time so I have no skill but it wasn't any fun. I saw spam not only throughout the round but especially at the beginning of the round. I just don't see any appeal. I think AA right now attracts the wrong kind of people. I really think mods are a big problem but they're not the whole story. Everybody knows these maps inside and out. All the glitches all the tactics, all the spam shots. As a new player, it really seems daunting. It's not a game that can be easily picked up. I'm not just whining, I do have some suggestions but nobody is going to like them...
1. Remove mods. Jonny's got a great plan on doing this, that's all I will say for now. He can comment more if he likes.
2. Fix map glitches. They need to be reported and a real discussion needs to take place on the best way to fix them.
3. Modify core 2.5 maps. This is the one that's going to have a lot of problems. I always wanted to keep the original aspect of AA but I now feel that it's adding to the problems of repetitive gameplay and whoring. I think at the very least there needs to be randomized spawn points which is something I'm not very familiar with but I think it's possible for 2.5. Randomizing spawn points will eliminate those prized spawn points that allow you to rush a certain point faster or create a tactic that's used every single round. I feel that this option will keep gameplay fresh and users on their toes. Everybody will hate it at first but in the long run I only see positive impact. Another thing that could be done is something along the lines of "no bridge monday" or a SF map only day. Force users to try other maps. Bridge, IC, Hospital and Pipe get boring.
4. Streamline Assist. I did a "find" installation via Assist and was amazed at all the little extra downloads. Don't get me wrong, ELiZ did a good thing with allowing single map updates but it seems like there's other packages that could be merged together like Border & Dusk. Then there's a v7.12 mAAp update and a v7.22. It just seemed like it would never end. Maybe just adding a "package 3 of 16" or something like that would be good. I think all the downloads isn't a good thing for new users that wonder when it's going to end.
5. Get more news on this site. I realize there's not a lot to report but even a goodbye to ELiZ news post describing what this means for the community would be good. We can also report on download/ban milestones or clan videos or just... anything. Twitter & Facebook is all connected but not being used. Let's get news out there!
Let the hate and flaming begin...
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absolute agree with you. good work!
and make a point # 6: stop hacking, then ...wow...the game will be reborn.
good luck. and if I can help, just call me (not as a coder, but.)
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Honestly, moving to another game would be easier and better than these fixes. AA 2 is simply outdated. Edit the usual maps and you'll lose even more players. Forcing players to play certain maps would be an even bigger disaster. I know I would be pissed if the game I played limited what I could play for no reason at all. There isn't going to be some big resurrection of AA2, most people have moved on to newer games. Those that are still playing AA aren't playing it for the new and exciting stuff, they're playing it because it's the same old AA they loved the play. Change that and you're left with very little users.
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Killa, as usual, I agree with you. But on the other hand, AA's current state isn't like what it used to be. Something's gotta be done or AA will continue the decline it's been doing.
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Killa, as usual, I agree with you. But on the other hand, AA's current state isn't like what it used to be. Something's gotta be done or AA will continue the decline it's been doing.
AA's problem isn't really the game itself, but the players. You can't change who plays the game. The same maps are played, the same bugs are exploited, and the same shit continuously happens not because that's all the game has to offer, but because that's what the players want. Of course it's not like it used to be, the game only appeals to the old hardcore AA 2 fans. AA 2 has next to no appeal to newcomers anymore so I think that catering to the already existent fanbase is about all that can be done.
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I agree on all except the 3rd on the spawning part. The 'currently' in AA is currently pathetic doesn't fit with that 1 seeing as it's always had fixed spawn points. To be fairly honest the fixed spawn points are set for each (competitively able to play) FPS game as far as I know and I feel no need to change this. Having random spawnpoints makes the game even more suitable for faggots who are actually not that good, but get a suitable spawn where they can just sit and wait.. Also this would completely ruin the point of objectives and make it a TDM game.
Having that said, is it in any way possible to create a TDM / FFA mode on America's Army with random spawn points? It's probably too much to ask but the thing that I reckon also repulses new players is the fact that there's only 1 game mode which is a luxury version of search and destroy.
Well said though, hope it'll be taken seriously.
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Objectives could still be done, there are random spawn points in newer AA maps but the AA devs never updated the original maps with new content or features, only bug fixes. Random spawn points can be fair and competitive, it just takes testing.
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If we stick as it is now, the game will die itself without even moving one finger forward or backword. Changes needs to be implied into the game. The spankys Jungle maap was absolutely fine , from the images and video he gave us I saw realism of war and game for the first time that made me stay to AA because I was on exception of quitting, it gave me the hope. What we can do is try not to make colorful maps like pipeline or new maps, but make the realistic maps which give us the experience of the real army. What we could do is imply spankys maap, it should be ready to put this into the game, would not harm anyone.
What we could do is add the training once again for people to join the game. The training is the most important part at the beginning and most important part when you join the army. I always wanted to see what you do in the army before you are being sent somewhere to fight or secure/scout places, it would be interesting to bring training back maybe even a little modified. I enjoyed the lessons of medication, it explained what to do in those situations when you get an injured soldier, it could save a life in real state, who knows but it was fun and enjoyable thing, maybe add a skip button because the lessons are very long.
Change the outfit of AA characters. This was discussed earlier and I have no idea what happened with it even tho most of the players agreed on it. We should change the character soldier outfit to the modern outfit as it is now in the army, A bit of textures and we done, should't be too hard I guess. This would be into more realistic game of the army way.
Spankys said he could lower the roof for spams at the bridge so they not reach enemies opposition side, this would be great he could dot that as he mentioned, waiting all 4-5 minutes for a round to start and then blowing up at the start is a really big problem, this is not even look like into realism of army.
Remove mods, its hilarious to see kids with rpgs. SF, gp, g? learn oldschool or the real army experience, don't like it? go play kid games then where you can have chat logger open slots and other such mods. Swiss since u the only one begging for them it wont hurt to loose 1 player, no offense and I don't want to argue but thats a fact. We dont need them they make servers laggy and spammed chat? unless it was a rare message of rules you have set for every 10 min.
Maybe if there is good guy in texture he could maybe add some better graphics into the game but we could leave this since the older CPU's wont take it if we add strong stuff into the game but we could think of that. Maybe make it a modern game.
I don't think all plans with radar would be good. It was discussed and hope that never comes up to the game. You wouldn't see your enemies or friendly on radar that's kinda sort of advantage for all. Compass is a very good way of this game. It gives you nothing, no advantage you have to be more careful and have a good eye sight and aiming.
Ban or add warning to those who is using macros or any other sort of advantage over tools and items they are using that are connected to their pc's.
Improve the anti-cheating. Add a stronger security. Make the new website or improved one. The anti cheat website with a better function, that updates ever 1 sec. When I add etc a name that was changed not long ago or has changed ages ago and type into aa anti cheat it says the player was not found, strange we should fix that or add new anti cheat system with our own website.
Add polls, and information to assist so we all see it. Maybe a box that pops up every time u log in into assist so everybody sees the news and info about aa.
Some one who is willing to search all websites on google with the current hacks that are for sale or public about AA. Who is trustable and is often on google that searches hacks. We could stop them once we get it or bought it maybe? just a solution.
Change maap glitches, such as hospital roof, add new some kind of layout so there is no possibility to bug yourself in some of the places as well as escort building.
Guys the game was made to see what you would see in the real army state. Stop fucking around with mods, mods are for kids, you would not have slots open in real army would you? not even a chat logger there, no pick your weapon no fucking random weapons not even a fucking ultimate mods. its just your team and your gun. Open your eyes people, if you against changing the game then you are against the people and the game as you would love to see it go downfall? The game needs to be the real army. Game is not for kids who would like to rpg others its for what you would experience for real. Why not do the previous devs idea of make it realistic so your name and 2.5 current devs go to the history, lmao. Cmon guys no time for pity talks its time to change now or never.
A lot of work, but we can do with everyone's help and inspiration.
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If we stick as it is now, the game will die itself without even moving one finger forward or backword. Changes needs to be implied into the game. The spankys Jungle maap was absolutely fine , from the images and video he gave us I saw realism of war and game for the first time that made me stay to AA because I was on exception of quitting, it gave me the hope. What we can do is try not to make colorful maps like pipeline or new maps, but make the realistic maps which give us the experience of the real army. What we could do is imply spankys maap, it should be ready to put this into the game, would not harm anyone.
What we could do is add the training once again for people to join the game. The training is the most important part at the beginning and most important part when you join the army. I always wanted to see what you do in the army before you are being sent somewhere to fight or secure/scout places, it would be interesting to bring training back maybe even a little modified. I enjoyed the lessons of medication, it explained what to do in those situations when you get an injured soldier, it could save a life in real state, who knows but it was fun and enjoyable thing, maybe add a skip button because the lessons are very long.
Change the outfit of AA characters. This was discussed earlier and I have no idea what happened with it even tho most of the players agreed on it. We should change the character soldier outfit to the modern outfit as it is now in the army, A bit of textures and we done, should't be too hard I guess. This would be into more realistic game of the army way.
Spankys said he could lower the roof for spams at the bridge so they not reach enemies opposition side, this would be great he could dot that as he mentioned, waiting all 4-5 minutes for a round to start and then blowing up at the start is a really big problem, this is not even look like into realism of army.
Remove mods, its hilarious to see kids with rpgs. SF, gp, g? learn oldschool or the real army experience, don't like it? go play kid games then where you can have chat logger open slots. Swiss since u the only one begging for them it wont hurt to loose 1 player, no offense and I don't want to argue but thats a fact.
Guys the game was made to see what you would see in the real army state. Stop fucking around with mods, mods are for kids, you would not have slots open in real army would you? not even a chat logger there, no pick your weapon no fucking random weapons not even a fucking ultimate mods. its just your team and your gun. Open your eyes people, if you against changing the game then you are against the people and the game as you would love to see it go downfall? The game needs to be the real army. Game is not for kids who would like to rpg others its for what you would experience for real. Why not do the previous devs idea of make it realistic so your name and 2.5 current devs go to the history, lmao. Cmon guys no time for pity talks its time to change now or never.
Good read, rather drastic. But colourful maps like pipeline? You're in IGC so I reckon all you play is Hospital, how is Hospital less colourful than Pipeline? There are absolutely 0 colourful stock maps in AA. The new Pipeline on AA3 however is a fucking joke. I agree on most points except the fact you think Pipeline is an inferior map, when in fact it's your home-map Hospital, the fact it has never been used for competitive purposes says enough.
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Good read, rather drastic. But colourful maps like pipeline? You're in IGC so I reckon all you play is Hospital, how is Hospital less colourful than Pipeline? There are absolutely 0 colourful stock maps in AA. The new Pipeline on AA3 however is a fucking joke. I agree on most points except the fact you think Pipeline is an inferior map, when in fact it's your home-map Hospital, the fact it has never been used for competitive purposes says enough.
Pretty sure he's talking about my Pipeline:
http://aao25.com/aa_shots/Pipeline.png
Wolf, to respond to your message, I do plan to work on that forest/jungle map and finish it up for release. Clothing was going to be changed but Blueblaster never finished it. I talked with him the other day about working on 2.8.5 and he said he would. Now things have changed, maybe he can finish up the textures. Removing mods would go a long way, I think it's a big step but I don't think it should be the only one. Unrealistic maps should also be removed like Teh Yetis Lair and Pool Day.
Training is likely to be too difficult to bring back. The maps work but the coding built-into AA is dependant up on the old auth and account system. All Assist does is lay another account system on top while the old one sits un-used. We have no way of knowing how the player's personal jacket database was setup, how it worked or how to recreate one for storing training statistics. Even if we did, it would be difficult still redirecting that communication. I think it's safe to say that training will remain optional forever.
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edited:o and it wasn't the original map pf pipeline, i mean all kinda ''costume mapps'' are too colorful.
P.S yeh i play on hospital but on other maps to when i get bored on it:)
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1. Remove mods
Urgently needed
2. Fix map glitches
Should have been done years ago on the core maps
the very least there needs to be randomized spawn points
Having random spawnpoints makes the game even more suitable for faggots
I must disagree on that one. When beginners start to play a new game they get owned bad at
first so they try to find reference points where they can try out some tactics and see if they work.
That is easier on fixed spawn points because you go always the same route and get familiar with it.
Randomizing spawn points will only disorientate from one round to another, as their noobiness
will prevent them from learning the maps whereabouts and constantly reajusting their tactics from
different starting spots in the same time.
Like everything in life, you learn by always doing the same actions until you master them,
that's why i would't recommend to spread this change on the core maps.
Add the training once again for people to join the game
Crucial for making soldiers / players. I still remember the time where i finished that "try-not-to-be-spotted"
training after have tried it like all night xD it was awesome and i knew if i'd fuck up in game, i'd have to go
through the whole thing again, so that could really be helpful to prevent some bad behavior.
An d if you object that there are trainhacks, they're all old / already caught by PB
Spankys said he could lower the roof for spams at the bridge so they not reach enemies opposition side
Not needed if mods are being completely gotten rid of. One G per side won't kill the gameplay.
My 2 cents.
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the game will be reborn.
Remeber the fact that this will never happen.
Two main problems of AA, half year ago, was:
1) Mods
2) ESL competition
We had A LOT OF players (>250 online in same time). Many famous faces used to play from time to time- my old friends or good known people. It was a good base to move forward. But it didn't happen.
After ESL competiiton this game lost weird number of players. For example I would like to say, no one from my friends play it now. So this game lost ~20 active players from my side. But the lost number is really much bigger.
It was a good time to start 285 then and just eliminate mods. It was easy way to tell someone "hey bro, AA is alive, get it and play with us!" But he played once, twice, then joined stupid modded server and uninstalled this game.
It's too late to make this game alive again. Who came back after break he is out again. For example me- I see no future for this game. I just installed it few days ago, played half an hour on Hospital and I'm done. And not only me. This game lost her character long time ago.
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Thanks to people like Merlin and vanoke that made this game alive with mods[/sarcasm]
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Thanks to people like Merlin and vanoke that made this game alive with mods[/sarcasm]
...and headshoted Shakespeare on the way
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...and headshoted Shakespeare on the way
Headshot* :style:
I am such a dick.
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1. Remove mods. Jonny's got a great plan on doing this, that's all I will say for now. He can comment more if he likes.
Totally agree. This is the main reason AA is going to die: NO new player will come at this game except for maybe 1 or 2 people. The old players will NOT come back if they only see a modfest, many of them left within a few days due to this, they might've stayed if it wasn't all modded.
2. Fix map glitches. They need to be reported and a real discussion needs to take place on the best way to fix them.
This is a no-brainer of course. Has to be done.
3. Modify core 2.5 maps.
I do not agree, because the maps were actually balanced because of the weapon slots and the fixed amounts of ar's and g's. You could easily dodge a spamshot. But with the mods you get 6 spamshots against you at the same time. There's the main problem. With only 4 g's you'll have to be more careful not to waste all of them. When the mod's are gone the spamming problem will be mostly gone as well.
4. Streamline Assist.
This is never bad to do in my opinion.
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long version
the maps were actually balanced because of the weapon slots and the fixed amounts of ar's and g's. You could easily dodge a spamshot. But with the mods you get 6 spamshots against you at the same time. There's the main problem. With only 4 g's you'll have to be more careful not to waste all of them. When the mod's are gone the spamming problem will be mostly gone as well.This is never bad to do in my opinion.
Short version
Not needed if mods are being completely gotten rid of. Two G per side won't kill the gameplay.
:D
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I have to agree with Bart.
Remove mods, fix bugs, better anti-cheat.
I dont agree with changing the original maps. Most of them are well balanced. And we have learned how to play the ones that arent that well balanced making it also fun playing the harder side.
I also dont agree with making the "no bridge", "no pipe" days. Dont force people to play a map that they dont like. So what that they are only bridge players or pipe. Let them play what they love.
Spanky I think this is definitely the right way of making AA2 better. Now it needs to be done, so it doesnt stay only on "paper". With the cup (and possibly next cups) being prepared it might bring better days to AA.
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and do not start again to cry about the modded servers.
i still think without them you will have only the have of the players like now. i hope not, but we will see it very soon.
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The only thing that could help was 2.8.5 and all the AAOTTS maps.
If i puth border on normal players go away to adder server who have sf in it.
I dit anser to the people how like SF and a little more. I often hear good server puf s GJ.
we have a lot returning players so we do GOOD and hower best for the 25Assist comunity.
also you can find us often in the server we play the game make contact to new players and old players in the game
to help to learn the game if they ask. ore just to make fun.
So do not tell that we distroy this game.
THX
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vanoke read you post !!!
surprise for you there :)
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I must disagree on that one. When beginners start to play a new game they get owned bad at
first so they try to find reference points where they can try out some tactics and see if they work.
That is easier on fixed spawn points because you go always the same route and get familiar with it.
Randomizing spawn points will only disorientate from one round to another, as their noobiness
will prevent them from learning the maps whereabouts and constantly reajusting their tactics from
different starting spots in the same time.
Like everything in life, you learn by always doing the same actions until you master them,
that's why i would't recommend to spread this change on the core maps.
That actually is a good point. I was mostly thinking about the Battlefield-style spawn system where you can choose where you spawn so tactics are dynamic and ever-changing. With random spawn points on AA, you wouldn't get to choose. In that way, new players would be somewhat lost. Then again, AA maps aren't that big so it wouldn't take too long to orient yourself. Maybe random spawn points would suit some maps more than others like Hospital, Urban and Pipeline. In that sense, it's more realistic. Maybe just 1 team has random spawn points like defense on Pipeline.
I was mostly disappointed by the pick-your-own-weapon on IC with RPG/203 spam shots at the beginning of the round. There was some annoying AR spam on Bridge however. I realize AR is actually meant as a suppression weapon to lay down cover fire BUT not on a foggy bridge where you can't see where you're shooting. I highly doubt the Army teaches you blind spam unless you're in a very stressed situation. Maybe that tree off to the side on Assault on Bridge is considered a bug? :)
Vanoke, I agree that 2.8.5 would have been a good thing but I'm not sure about "ALL AAOTTS maps". Too many maps just adds bloat and reduces map quality. Like right now, we have a couple useless maps that should be removed. There are still people that play with with slow internet and it wouldn't be fair to them to add 2-3GB just for maps.
OF COURSE getting rid of mods will lose players. But you have to realize that they stayed because of mods. As Tidididi said, we've lost a lot of good people and player numbers have been going down despite no problems with Assist. The majority of people think mods ruin the game so why are we catering to the minority? People talk on the official AA forums and other sites about how they miss AA2 and the classic days. Mods weren't around in those days, they're not what everybody remembers. With that said, some mods are great fun. It's nice to mess around and do stuff you normally wouldn't. But a little goes a long way. Mods shouldn't be abolished, just discouraged with lowered points or non-honor/tracking.
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The only thing that could help was 2.8.5 and all the AAOTTS maps.
If i puth border on normal players go away to adder server who have sf in it.
I dit anser to the people how like SF and a little more. I often hear good server puf s GJ.
we have a lot returning players so we do GOOD and hower best for the 25Assist comunity.
also you can find us often in the server we play the game make contact to new players and old players in the game
to help to learn the game if they ask. ore just to make fun.
So do not tell that we distroy this game.
THX
Imho, in the end it's not entirely your fault but it's also about those players that keep playing only on modded servers (i completely agree with Spanky on lowering points for modded gameplay or even taking honour off, but i'm not sure it would clear the issue). Well, after that there's the whole amount of glitches, bugs, workarounds and "little" tricks used to gain advantages over others...at least that's what the game looks to me as of now.
The random respawn point is an interesting idea for those maps which are wide enough and which aren't "hold and defend" oriented.
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I just hope we wont see promises of talk but we see action of work ^^
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I just hope we wont see promises of talk but we see action of work ^^
The only thing I can do is work on maps. I WILL get that jungle/forest map out. Beyond that, it's up to what the users want.
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Vanoke, I agree that 2.8.5 would have been a good thing but I'm not sure about "ALL AAOTTS maps". Too many maps just adds bloat and reduces map quality. Like right now, we have a couple useless maps that should be removed. There are still people that play with with slow internet and it wouldn't be fair to them to add 2-3GB just for maps.
This dream is gone now ELIZ is away hope adders can and wil pick it up agan than we have a choice for better game play maps Hope your jungle is one of them to replays one of you say useless games.
But i think that what already has bin say in this topic the clan is staying in his core map.
must go sorry .
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- instead of random spawn points, start with a rotation assault/defence after 7 rnds, so the playing team has to regroup the the new side and it would be the end for def whores
- the only chance for new players is probably an updated tracker with new features or even a new tracker, it was always for many players their only motivation to play... :( (dont get me wrong, its a bad thing, but hey thats the way it was/is?...)
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AA is still fun
just saying.. i died alot :cry:, but i enjoy the teamwork on some maps, like weapon cache, pipeline, ect.
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- instead of random spawn points, start with a rotation assault/defence after 7 rnds, so the playing team has to regroup the the new side and it would be the end for def whores
This reminds me, if I knew how to code, it would be great to have a slot randomizer/balancer to scramble teams after 7 rounds. It could be disabled in passworded servers for clan battles and whatnot. A great idea but I doubt anyone would code it.
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I agree on many points here, exept one thing.
" I think AA right now attracts the wrong kind of people. I really think mods are a big problem but they're not the whole story. Everybody knows these maps inside and out. All the glitches all the tactics, all the spam shots. As a new player, it really seems daunting. It's not a game that can be easily picked up."
The way I see it, alot of players prefer mods, because it gives them a chance to earn kills. Without mods, a newcomer will have 0% chance to get one single kill on urban assault for example. So I think "no-mods" will make it more difficult for newcomers, as the only still playing will be the hardcore AA fans playing for years now.
Just my 2 cents on that point. Still I'm not 'pro-mods'
And that tree on assault side of bridge .. insitates people to camp on assault, never understood that
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the damage is already done, mod or no mods wont change much, and killing with m16 isnt that hard as it seems, after they wont have alternative, they will adapt and maybe will like it more.
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Vanoke i truly have to compliment you on your english,
it has fucking improved :up:
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only thing i will say, isn't it up to the server owner how to run there own server that they pay for the way they like??
another note i know hackhunter is a good tool and does catch the noobs, but how bout get rid of the known ones that we all here know is using when he gets mad or suspects another player using
this game has been around close to what 10 years if not more, good things always come to a end sometime, not saying i wanna see aa die, but i think aa 2.5 has gotten all that they can get out of it,
get rid of these kiddie cheats and aa 2.5 will gain more players
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any progress? put maybe poll into assist?
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I haven't started work on any maps yet. I am setup to do that though.