AAO25.com
America's Army => Anti-Cheat => Ban Appeals => Topic started by: Thrice on Sunday, July 15, 2012, 08:44:59 AM
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Hey there,
so I was curious about that poke stuff and tried it out.
I am not sure how detailed your logs are - but I actually joined an empty server just to test it out.
Got a temp ban for 24h on this peculiar server.
No harm done.
Few days later I got a global ban.
Isn't this a bit harsh?
Playername: Thrice
BT: http://battletracker.com/playerstats/aao/819363/Thrice/
Reason: Being curious lol
Hope you don't mind unbanning me.
Thanks in advance.
Best regards
Thrice
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So let me get this straight, you started playing 3 days ago and first thing you got on your mind was "hmm poke, wth is that, please let me test..." ?
Was something like that?
Then the answer is poke = ban. Hope you had fun testing.
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No, I've been playing AA since 2006(?).
I just didn't remember my aaotracker login after they merged with battletracker in 2009.
This is my old account: http://battletracker.com/playerstats/aao/511739/
Banning players for using Poke on an empty server is like possessing a gun (legally) and getting sent to jail for shooting into the air. (As far as I am concerned this is legal - I am not american, so I wouldn't know ^^).
Also this is the command I tried:
// PlayerReplicationInfo Pokes (these only are visible to you)
Poke PlayerReplicationInfo Bridge.PlayerReplicationInfo bAdmin true // talks as an admin
Again, I think that this is kinda harsh, considering that the command I tried doesn't even do anything besides my own client.
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The logs are fairly detailed but not detailed enough to know how many players were on the server when you used the command. I'll give you this much because you sound like a slightly reasonable guy. The admins will discuss it over and will let you know the final verdict.
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"I was curious" is an awful defense.
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Well, what else can I say?
After I got the temp ban, I've searched the aao25 forums, and had an interesting read.
Therefore...
If I really wanted to cheat, I could've tried EditObj or a way better Poke command than admintalk.
I am a fair player at heart, especially when it comes to skillbased games.
But that is exactly why I am curious.
I want to know if there is a 'legal' way to have an edge over other players - just like the run & gun exploit back in 2.4 or diverse .ini tweaks.
Luckily all of those are taken care off by various mods and cvars.
Anyways back then, as far as I can remember, you didn't even get a global ban for using real hacks - you just got kicked and maybe banned from the server itself for using a detected hack (unless ACI protected).
All in all who doesn't want to know if theres an unfair advantage others might have and a lot of players are oblivious off?
It's up to you now.
Thanks for your input so far.
Best Regards
Thrice
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Give him a chance. He looks smart. Just let him show his innocence by fair playing after unban.
There is a difference between cheater-fucker (radar, wallhack etc) and person who made a mistake (stupid console commands).
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Give him a chance. He looks smart. Just let him show his innocence by fair playing after unban.
There is a difference between cheater-fucker (radar, wallhack etc) and person who made a mistake (stupid console commands).
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Give him a chance. He looks smart. Just let him show his innocence by fair playing after unban.
There is a difference between cheater-fucker (radar, wallhack etc) and person who made a mistake (stupid console commands).
that is the truth
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What about those who are "curious" about shadowbot, should we unban them too? It's supposed to be zero tolerance.
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What about those who are "curious" about shadowbot, should we unban them too? It's supposed to be zero tolerance.
At all I don't know how shadowbot works, but here we have a case of stupid console command. Maybe he really wanted to check it?
Lets try to use the law way. He should't prove his innocence. But you have to prove that he is guilty.
Are the argumentations strong enough to leave him banned, or aren't? If aren't let him play and watch him.
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At all I don't know how shadowbot works, but here we have a case of stupid console command. Maybe he really wanted to check it?
Lets try to use the law way. He should't prove his innocence. But you have to prove that he is guilty.
Are the argumentations strong enough to leave him banned, or aren't? If aren't let him play and watch him.
We have proof he's guilty, the kick.... I have no sympathy for anyone who is "curious" about cheating in a video game.
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We have proof he's guilty, the kick....
That's the point. But look from other perspective.
He got kicked. Why he got kicked? Because he used console command.
Why he used console command?
a) he wanted to cheat
b) he wanted to check
If A- have proves expect only kick?
If B- he just wanted to check, that's all. He made mistake and he paid for it.
And now- I don't know what poke is. I play this game since 2004. I've joined the server and wrote poke in console, because I really want to know what is it. I got banned. I came here and I hope to unban me.
The question is- will you unban me? Me like me, like tidididi. All you know is just I wanted to check. Nothing enough. You know me.
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If we unban him we will have to unban lots of ppl banned for EditObj/Pokes, anyway isn't because of this that we aren't going to unban him. << I'm Speaking for Myself.
We gotta wait till our lazy busy admins vote/give their opinions about, currently you are loosing:
BANHAMMER United 2 - 0 Unban and let's be Friends Team
Goals of KiLLaMaN 15", Possessed 45"
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We've had enough unban decisions based on the story the appealing person told. The "oh, he talks really nice, he sounds like mature person, let's unban him" approach is unserious.
Either we allow e.g. 1 warning before ban in case of poke/editobj kicks, or we just ban regardless of what the story is.
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You just put smart people and real losers into one box. That's a bit unfair in my opinion.
There are some people who used to laugh into your face after got banned. And there are some people who just made a mistake and wants to repair that.
Maybe you should think about it also?
Statistics are beautiful- XXXXXXXXXX banned players. Nice. But it's only statistic. How much bans are unfair? How much REAL CHETERS are discovered? You don't care.
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Guys, keep on topic whenever possible... also:
http://aao25.com/general-discussion/aao25-forum-rules/msg28200/?topicseen#new
althrough good points are welcome.
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If you don't have a chance to be unbanned, why is there even a forum to appeal?
You created it for banned people to appeal, so you created it for a reason!
But now all I can see is "He used poke once" he deservers to be banned - doesn't matter what the reason was.
This feels like I am living in the medievals.
"You either jump down and survive - then you're a witch - or you die and you've proven you're innocent"
eh - what?
So what am I supposed to do?
To be fair, I do understand where you admins are coming from.
Being strict is one thing, and is probably needed to get rid of cheaters.
But again what's the point of these forums (appeal forums), if you dont even spare a thought about unbanning the banned?
If you don't consider unbanning me, please tell me so I don't have to waste my time and get my hopes up.
Also I don't see whats so bad about giving a second chance.
If I do it again - I'll just be banned again.
Anyways thanks for taking your time.
Also thanks to tidididi, wickid and zoxee for standing up for me!
Best Regards
Thrice
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If you don't have a chance to be unbanned, why is there even a forum to appeal?
Because there are violations which are somewhat unclear and not always bannable. The poke thing is rather outside that category.
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@ Skrewup
Wow.. I guess it doesn't matter what I say - my words will get twisted to the wrong way.
What I was trying to say, is that I want to _know_ if there are ways to cheat, so I will be able to distinguish between a legit player or an exploiter.
If you are saying it like that, the whole Anti-Cheat staff should be banned from playing assist aswell.. because they also tried to figure out this stuff.
Anti-Cheat guys need to know how cheat works in order to do their work
- but that doesn't mean that they actually do cheat.
Anti-Malware guys probably need to know how a virus or malware works
- but that doesn't mean that they actually spread viruses.
What I am trying to say is, that in order to really know the bad stuff, you need to make contact with it - and not just stay oblivious of it and demonize it.
Anyways thanks for your input Skrewup.
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@ Skrewup
Wow.. I guess it doesn't matter what I say - my words will get twisted to the wrong way.
What I was trying to say, is that I want to _know_ if there are ways to cheat, so I will be able to distinguish between a legit player or an exploiter.
If you are saying it like that, the whole Anti-Cheat staff should be banned from playing assist aswell.. because they also tried to figure out this stuff.
Anti-Cheat guys need to know how cheat works in order to do their work
- but that doesn't mean that they actually do cheat.
Anti-Malware guys probably need to know how a virus or malware works
- but that doesn't mean that they actually spread viruses.
What I am trying to say is, that in order to really know the bad stuff, you need to make contact with it - and not just stay oblivious of it and demonize it.
Anyways thanks for your input Skrewup.
Look, you said you were looking for unfair advantages, and the system has proof that you did just that. Regardless of what you say, there is nothing that can confirm your intentions, so the only thing the admins have to go on is the evidence. Besides, you have to understand that you were wrong for doing what you did and you got yourself banned. Now people need to spend time helping/explaining things to you when you did this, knowing it was shady. Do you know how this looks? You are not on a Salem witch trial, there is clear evidence against you, so you can ditch that argument. Maybe if you own what you did and be honest, they'll think about it, but I'm not sure what you expect.
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What I am trying to say is, that in order to really know the bad stuff, you need to make contact with it - and not just stay oblivious of it and demonize it.
Yes, and so? If you think we should unban you based on your request, then following your logic, we shall unban everyone who comes with similar explanation. Well, why ban anybody then? There are no cheaters, only one big family of anti-cheat researchers...
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@Goose: I did state the truth in my first and second post - I even quoted the command I had used.
@Pit:
I just typed in a stupid command - nothing happened.
Basically I did nothing, noone reported me, noone even was on the server I used the command.
BAM, global ban - forever.
Yes, cheaters should be banned, that is cheaters that use aimbots and stuff.
But a poke command without an effect is nothing compared to game breaking cheats.
Don't get me wrong.
I am not saying that I shouldn't be punished:
- Warning? Yes, easily would have accepted that.
- Temp ban? Ok aswell.
- Unlimited ban? Way too extreme.
You should seriously overthink your policy, if you want to keep your players.
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Really? That's all you got out of that post?
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Really? That's all you got out of that post?
Have you read the rest of my post?
It might've been aimed at Pit, but I guess theres also another answer to your post.
Besides my words I have no proof of being innocent - I am not even saying I am.
I mean I did use the command.
All I am trying to say is that the ban wasn't really necessary for such a minor delict.
If you can really call it that.
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These ban appeal threads just get more and more ridiculous.
@killa, possessed, & pit: do the right thing for the community
@KingTididi: nice job playing the role so many have played before you
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after reading all post, i still really don't know what poke is lol, but i guess a cheat is a cheat no matter how small it is
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after reading all post, i still really don't know what poke is lol, but i guess a cheat is a cheat no matter how small it is
Pokes is a way to alter certain things in the game to gain unfair advantages. Stuff like no recoil and what not. People create a file with certain commands and activate them via the console. For the longest time it went undetected in 2.5 because there was no way to efficiently check for them. Pokes didn't exist in later versions, not sure which version fixed it.
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Pokes is a way to alter certain things in the game to gain unfair advantages. Stuff like no recoil and what not. People create a file with certain commands and activate them via the console. For the longest time it went undetected in 2.5 because there was no way to efficiently check for them. Pokes didn't exist in later versions, not sure which version fixed it.
so basically like setting up keybinds
hopefully it can be looked into and be fixed
possible moving to 2.85?
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so basically like setting up keybinds
hopefully it can be looked into and be fixed
possible moving to 2.85?
It's already fixed, that's why he got kicked. It wasn't possible until the official auth went down.
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There are 2.5 Assist anti-cheat staff members and researchers designated with the task of discovering cheating methods. This is not supposed to be left to regular players otherwise everyone can claim they are doing anti-cheat for themselves, which is silly because why do regular players need to check if the anti-cheat is working? You can go on the forum and ask about that.
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I understand.
It's just that I didn't assume that typing a command into the console would lead to a ban.
Am I really naive to think so?
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I understand.
It's just that I didn't assume that typing a command into the console would lead to a ban.
Am I really naive to think so?
Yes, yes you are. You obviously knew what pokes were, and you knew it was cheating. Why do you think we wouldn't punish someone trying to cheat?
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I don't mind being punished.
What I can't accept is the severity of the punishment.
Also this is the command I tried:
// PlayerReplicationInfo Pokes (these only are visible to you)
Poke PlayerReplicationInfo Bridge.PlayerReplicationInfo bAdmin true // talks as an admin
Is this really considered cheating?
Seeing _myself_ talk as an admin, is supposed to be cheating?
What exactly did I do to justify a permanent ban?
In what way did I do anything bad?
Neither did I disrupt other players, nor did I myself benefit anything from it.
Is it really so hard to give me a second chance?
If I do it again, I'll just be banned again.
Best Regards
Thrice
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I don't mind being punished.
What I can't accept is the severity of the punishment.
Is this really considered cheating?
Seeing _myself_ talk as an admin, is supposed to be cheating?
What exactly did I do to justify a permanent ban?
In what way did I do anything bad?
Neither did I disrupt other players, nor did I myself benefit anything from it.
Is it really so hard to give me a second chance?
If I do it again, I'll just be banned again.
Best Regards
Thrice
Again, you used pokes. You knew what they were and you knew what they could be used for. Why on Earth did you think such a thing would be allowed, even if you mean to use something harmless? Your excuse is as weak as the guy who said he used shadowbot just to make his screen brighter. We can't just let everyone who gets caught using pokes off if they say what they were trying to do was harmless. If what you say is true, then it's a tough break, but not something that should go unpunished. This decision isn't only up to me though, so we'll see what the other admins say.
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So it would be awesome to know the source of your poke information sir.
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@BlueBlaster: Sent you a PN.
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Even if we were unable to detect Pokes, Non-Authorized Admin rights get u kicked too :), Assist auth is different from the auth that AA had in the past.
if you wan't to test something, setup a server WITHOUT Assist.
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Without trying to be too pushy...
Any decision yet?
I don't really wanna drag this out.